UPGP weirdness with foaming....

[Bigpikle]

well today was the first major wash for the Saab, after 4 layers of UPGP. My process is always to use a snowfoam on the car, applied with a foam lance on the PW.

When I have had my cars topped with waxes or even AJT, the foam dwells for 5-6 mins before about 80% has slid off taking loads of dirt with it. This time after 5-6 mins there was 90% still on the car! After waiting a full 10 mins there was only a minor improvement with at least 80% of the foam (and dirt) still on the car....

So out comes the PW for a rinse. While the bulk of the thicker surface foam rinses off immediately, there is a thin layer of milky residue covering 90% of the surface of the car. It is the foam 'stuck' to the paintwork. It needed a complete high pressure wash to remove it from the car.

I have heard and seen pics of foam doing this with Zaino products in the UK, but there would seem to be an incompatibility between the foam (process or product I dont know....) and UPGP.

I had hoped the super slick finish would lead to more dirt rinsing off during foaming and leaving less on the car to get with a touch wash but the opposite seems to be true???

David, anyone else have any thoughts?

For info:

Hard water area
foam - Autobrite Super snow foam (UK)
lance - Autobrite foam lance (UK)


PS used the shampoo for the first time and it worked great - amazing lube'd slick feel. Looking forward to getting this available for the UK.

[DavidB]

Impossible for me to know what is going on. I have tried a number of different wash products with UPGP and have not seen this kind of reaction. Very strange. A picture would be useful.

[Bigpikle]

David - I'll foam my wife's car this weekend and see if it happens again, as it has 2 layers of PGP on now. I didnt have my camera to hand before so will get prepared this time.

It literally is like the foam residue sticks to the surface. I dont think the residue would even be totally shifted without the use of a PW. I use a VERY diluted foam solution (maybe 20:1 mix in the lance bottle diluted further as it mixes with the water) so its not foam overload that causes it. The exact same mix would slide off my Zymol finished cars in 5-6 mins and the same over AJT, Victoria waxes etc. Over PGP it barely drips off the vertical panels...

I havent had any issues with the shampoo washes I tried before, and will be using Duragloss in future as my new supplies just arrived. It seems to be just the foaming product which causes the problem.

Has anyone else tried a foam pre-rinse over PGP?

[JayC]

I have with Turtle Wax Ice and Duragloss soap. I havent seen that kind of reaction.

[Bigpikle]

OK - washed both cars again and foamed them in the exact same way.

Strangely I didnt get the same initial 'clinging' where the foam wouldnt even drip off the car, but on both cars there is the same patchy look where, after the initial rinsing off, there is a thin residue of foam 'stuck' in patches and drip lines all over the car. It takes a concerted effort to rinse again with the PW to get it all off????

Dont have any issues with it happening after shampoo'ing - used Duragloss today with superb results - but the pure foam is acting very stangely. Will post some pics next wash.

[Bigpikle]

OK - latest update.

Foamed using softened water this time and again had less cling, although some was still present. I added a 3rd layer of UPGP to one of the cars, followed by a QD about 5 hours later, so will see what happens when its washed this weekend. Interested to see if it has something to do with a fresh application of UPGP, as it seems to lessen over washes????

[frank_jarle]

could it be a hard water issue thats going on here, since you said that you had less cling-problem after the water was softened.

I came to think about something, is a waterjet required to be connected directly to the tap, or can its hose be placed in a big bucket and just suck the water as it needs it? What i was thinking is that if you have those big 20-40liter cans with nutreal water. Just a thought.

Frank
Norway

[Bigpikle]

I have 3 tanks totalling 1300 litre of rain water..... I find that it is not as easy for my cheap consumer PW to work from them as from a mains pressure source. There is a HUGE difference in pressure and the pump struggles from the tanks - makes me think I might kill it in no time.... Havent tried simply putting a pipe in the top of the tank though so may try that this weekend and see if the flow is improved bu not needing a tap to feed the hosepipe.

They are great for using in rinse buckets though and it does save water usage - expect to rely on them when we get the annual hose bans again...

[BlackElantraGT]

I'm not familiar with any of the Ultima products so this is just a guess, but I think it might be because the Ultima wash is a lot more concentrated than most of the soaps any of us have used.

According to the instructions:

"Mixing: A 5-gallon size bucket is highly recommended. Fill the bucket 2/3 full with cool water. Add 1 ounce of Ultima Paint Guard Wash to the water. Using a stiff jet of water, fill bucket to fully activate suds. As you use the wash water, you may continue to refill the bucket and activate more suds."

I take that to mean you can use 1 oz for 5 gallons AND MORE. Compared to the usual 1 oz to 1 gallon, that is a very concentrated soap. Even CG's Citrus Wash n' Gloss is not that concentrated.

I have experienced something similar with Citrus Wash n' Gloss when used too concentrated in a foam lance, but I didn't notice a milky residue. Mine was more like a film that's on the car that required a bit more rinsing from the pressure washer than normal.

Try diluting your mixture even more next time and see if you still encounter the same issue.

[TH0001]

I have found this problem on most sealants if the product is over concentrated. That is, if you add to much soap to the solution it becomes sticky and difficult to remove. Not sure why... just a random observation.