Layering and Topping Ultima Paint Guard Plus

DavidB · 08-21-07, 12:05

We are getting a bunch of questions regarding using Ultima sealants with other products. I would like to address this topic head-on.

First, the Ultima team would like to thank everyone for their interest. We believe that we have created technically superior products. Our goal over the next few weeks is to show people through animations what the product does and how it works.

People are asking us two common questions:

1. Can I use Ultima Paint Guard Plus over XYZ product?

2. Can I apply XYZ product over Ultima Paint Guard Plus?

Let me first address the topic of mixing products. In general, the process of layering products was adopted to achieve a result that could not be achieved with a single product alone. The Ultima team believes that it has resolved this problem. We believe that, when our products are properly applied, you will achieve a superior final finish.

If you have applied a high quality sealant system to your paint, and you wish to apply Ultima Paint Guard Plus over this fully cured sealant, you can. The solvents in our product are gentle enough that they will most likely leave the cured sealant intact (unless you totally saturate your paint finish with our product). In using the product this way, you have protected your base coat of sealant, not your vehicle's paint. Where Ultima can get through the molecules of the existing sealant layer, your paint will be protected by Ultima. This is not the best use of the product, however, there will be no negative visual ramifications.

It is our recommendation that you properly clean and polish your paint prior to applying Ultima for the first time to give Ultima Paint Guard Plus a clean substrate for bonding. When you realize (or visualize) just how much smaller the Ultima polymer molecule is compared to what you are currently applying to your car, this will make complete sense. Ultima Paint Guard Plus gets deep into the smallest pores of your vehicles clearcoat.

A Porsche dealer in Florida said it best "My gosh, it's like you applied a new layer of clearcoat". We could not have said it better.

If you apply Ultima Paint Guard Plus over a car wax product, such as a Carnauba wax, you will remove the wax. We have tried this with several waxes with no negative results. However, we'd like to point out that doing this mixes wax in with the Ultima polymers. We suspect the Ultima polymers, being far more dense, settle to the bottom of the mix, but we have no way of knowing this for sure. Again, we do not recommend it.

Okay, let's move to the second question, "Can I apply XYZ product over Ultima Paint Guard Plus?". In general, the answer to this question is yes, however, we don't know why you'd want to. If you want the best shine possible at all times, simply apply a coating of Ultima Paint Guard Plus after you wash. It takes no longer than a wipe down with your favorite QD. You don't need to do this for protection, but each additional coating fills more surface imperfections and makes the shine deeper.

db

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TNWIII · 08-21-07, 12:24

I agree with David.

I haven't used alot of products, but I have completed details using the Klasse AIO followed with 2 coats Klasse Glaze and then an application of P21S. I have to say that I found the UPPP and the UPGP to provide a more glassy, deep, rich and wet look to the paint.

I don't feel there is a need to add anything else, the system works!

Also, with the ease of application, I have applied 6 coats of the UPGP and don't plan on stopping. I will upload pictures when I have good weather.

Thanks for your time.

zoomzoom mazda5 · 08-21-07, 01:21

Thanks db, for this information on your product.

wannafbody · 08-21-07, 01:52

does it take more applications of your nanotech sealant to fill imperfections vs a traditional hazing sealant with polymer fillers such as Z5pro?

Low Tech · 08-21-07, 03:14

Thank you for addressing this so clearly, David. I'll be receiving your products on Friday and look forward to testing them this weekend on my daughters new Dodge Caliber.

DavidB · 08-21-07, 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannafbody

does it take more applications of your nanotech sealant to fill imperfections vs a traditional hazing sealant with polymer fillers such as Z5pro?

Perhaps. I'm looking at renting a surface analyze that will help measure the depth of swirl marks. My best guess so far is that a swirl mark created by microfiber is in the range of 1000 to 2000 nm, putting it in the range of being "fillable" with one or two coats of PGP.

Swirl marks caused by wash grit or buffer marks caused by wool and compounds are another story. I believe these marks have a depth range of 10,000 to 50,000 nm. Above this and they are a scratch that you can feel with your fingernail.

When applied with our applicator, PGP has an average film build of 100 nm. Like other liquids, it will settle into low spots. On a non-stick surface, PGP will cure to a film build in excess of 100,000 nm.

While I have not compared side-by-side with Z-5 Pro to see which product fills better, I can. I will simply have to figure out how to prep the test panel.

Setec Astronomy · 08-21-07, 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidB

When applied with our applicator, PGP has an average film build of 100 nm.

I find this fascinating because this is the first discussion I am aware of that actually addresses the thickness of a layer of LSP. Converting these numbers to inches (which is easier for me to visualize/understand), that's about 4 millionths, which is not practical to measure by mechanical means...can you tell us how you measured this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidB

Like other liquids, it will settle into low spots. On a non-stick surface, PGP will cure to a film build in excess of 100,000 nm.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, especially the significance of a "non-stick surface". Also, 100,000 nm is about .004", which is about twice the thickness of the clearcoat on most cars...are you saying that if the PGP settles into a "low spot" it will cure at a thickness up to .004"? If so that certainly is a remarkable acheivement, especially in comparison to Z5.

wannafbody · 08-21-07, 06:03

.004 = 4/1,000th's correct? Are you saying that clearcoat is only 2/1,000th's of an inch thick?

Setec Astronomy · 08-21-07, 06:14

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Approximately, E-coat is about .001, primer .001, color coat .001, clear about .002. Usually you measure .004-.006 total build on a factory panel. I tried to find some cross-section info out on the net and on MOL, but it's been so long since I looked...I don't remember where I saw it.

DavidB · 08-21-07, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

I find this fascinating because this is the first discussion I am aware of that actually addresses the thickness of a layer of LSP. Converting these numbers to inches (which is easier for me to visualize/understand), that's about 4 millionths, which is not practical to measure by mechanical means...can you tell us how you measured this?

Information provided by the manufacturer of the polymers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

I'm not sure what you mean by this, especially the significance of a "non-stick surface". Also, 100,000 nm is about .004", which is about twice the thickness of the clearcoat on most cars...are you saying that if the PGP settles into a "low spot" it will cure at a thickness up to .004"? If so that certainly is a remarkable acheivement, especially in comparison to Z5.

That means if you pour/spray it off onto a sheet of wax paper (several heavy coats) it will dry to a clear film. The thickest strip I have been able to produce for measurement thus far is about .0045" thick.

wannafbody · 08-21-07, 06:23

that would seem to indicate that filling is safer than removing anything more than micromarring.

mbkintner · 08-21-07, 06:28

This.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidB

If you have applied a high quality sealant system to your paint, and you wish to apply Ultima Paint Guard Plus over this fully cured sealant, you can. The solvents in our product are gentle enough that they will most likely leave the cured sealant intact (unless you totally saturate your paint finish with our product).

does not seem to play nice with this.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Tech

Just heard from Lynn: My assumtions were wrong - Paint Guard Plus removes ALL waxes/protectants... I Can't use it over synthetics like Klasse or Glazes like Danase Wet Glaze without theeir being removed by the UPGP...

[Thanks, Lynn for the quick response!]

Or am I reading this wrong?

Low Tech's post is here with a follow-up from Lynn.

Mike