Allow Commercial Posts?

DavidB · 08-02-07, 02:16

In this week's meeting with the Moderators I proposed the following question:

"Should we provide a forum area specifically for commercial posts?"

The Mods were hesitant to say yes, so we agreed to put it out to the community.

This is an important issue. In the past we allowed company representatives to participate and answer questions about their products. When the heavy marketing and selling started (some people just can't control themselves), we put an end to it. Enough was enough.

The spam continues. Shills are coming out of the woodwork.

One possible way to control this issue is to simply make it okay to make commercial posts in a specific "free-for-all" forum area. What would this area be for:

- Public announcements of new products, services and web sites.
- Public announcements of specials, sales and coupons.
- Member posting of trades, items for sale and items wanted.
- Member questions to business representatives who participate on the forum.

I'd like a simple thumbs up or thumbs down vote. If the community wants this we will give it a try.

Our rules will be modified as follows:

- Anyone directly related (evidence or appearance that monetary benefit exists) to a product, service or business who is caught selling, marketing or recommending their product outside of the "Trading Post" area will be immediately banned with no questions asked.

- Anyone caught shilling (multiple accounts for fraudulent purposes) will be immediately banned and reported to anti-shill lists.

Thanks for your feedback!

db

Bence · 08-02-07, 02:23

1st:

Deenice21 · 08-02-07, 02:36

i say yeah, their very own needle park!

BlueZero · 08-02-07, 02:43

I voted yes. I think it is of benefit to both them and us to have them here.

Oh the other hand what happens to the sponsors who pay for that privilege? No answer needed to me just thinking out loud. (sorry, i know you said just thumbs

, I just don't think it's that black or white)

BlackElantraGT · 08-02-07, 03:11

If this site was fully funded by the owner, I would vote yes but considering part of the costs to operate this site comes from paying sponsors, I just do not think it would be fair to allow commercial posts when they do not pay for anything. It really becomes free advertising for them. You've tried it in the past and it didn't work, and most likely history will repeat itself. $$$ corrupts people, even the ones we come to know and trust.

These non-paying companies can host their own forum/site to answer any questions people have. The little product knowledge we would gain from it would not be enough to make up for the product pushing we will eventually see if we allow something like this.

Allowing commercial posts won't stop spammers and shills to come here. This is probably the most visited auto-detailing website. If you're here often enough you begin to get an idea of who the possible shills may be. Some of them are well trusted by the community, but it's up to the individual to make up their mind and decide whether or not they should take that person's opinions with a grain of salt. When it becomes really blatant though (like Justin, even though he was never technically banned for shilling), that really bothers me. I can put up with the other ones.

a.k.a. Patrick · 08-02-07, 03:57

Theres a lot of "gray" area. And I have concerns regarding fairness to those already paying as well. You may find a rash of web owners who operate detailing businesses suddenly wanting to become involved in retailing. Just a thought.

RTexasF · 08-02-07, 04:07

No! Simply continue the endless spam and shill hunt. Aside from being unfair to paying sponsors "no gooders" will still stray outside that assigned area anyway. So they get banned, so what? They'll surface again with a new name and continue here or somewhere else. In the meantime the folks that are helping pay the bills here still get screwed indirectly by "free posting" of other products for sale by less than scrupulous vendors.

In short you're saying "OK, I give up! You win! I'm consolidating all the garbage to one area now so go ahead".

SuperBee364 · 08-02-07, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackElantraGT

If this site was fully funded by the owner, I would vote yes but considering part of the costs to operate this site comes from paying sponsors, I just do not think it would be fair to allow commercial posts when they do not pay for anything. It really becomes free advertising for them. You've tried it in the past and it didn't work, and most likely history will repeat itself. $$$ corrupts people, even the ones we come to know and trust.

These non-paying companies can host their own forum/site to answer any questions people have. The little product knowledge we would gain from it would not be enough to make up for the product pushing we will eventually see if we allow something like this.

Allowing commercial posts won't stop spammers and shills to come here. This is probably the most visited auto-detailing website. If you're here often enough you begin to get an idea of who the possible shills may be. Some of them are well trusted by the community, but it's up to the individual to make up their mind and decide whether or not they should take that person's opinions with a grain of salt. When it becomes really blatant though (like Justin, even though he was never technically banned for shilling), that really bothers me. I can put up with the other ones.

+1
(and some more letters to make the ten character min limit)

DavidB · 08-02-07, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by a.k.a. Patrick

Theres a lot of "gray" area. And I have concerns regarding fairness to those already paying as well. You may find a rash of web owners who operate detailing businesses suddenly wanting to become involved in retailing. Just a thought.

My thought on advertising is that it is a royal PITA. It's not my business, and the amount of money we actually collect is very small compared to the bills. In fact, there are 9 or 10 advertisers who are negative on their accounts. I don't really want to be in the advertising business; I did it because I thought it would be a nice service to offer vendors. Sadly, very few vendors have taken advantage of the offering, and I have no intention of chasing after it.

We just signed a $12,000 deal to do an overhaul on the Autopia.org community. Some of the changes will be put in place very soon. Others will take a bit of time.

With the upgrades, I'm looking at doing away with paid advertising. This would do away with the issue you speak of completely.

db

Bence · 08-02-07, 04:15

I voted yes because I miss the INSIGHTS. Not the other aspects, but the behind-the-scene informations; to experience how a company develops a new product, chemicals, testing, etc.

getright · 08-02-07, 06:47

Commercial posters that are credible and ethical is OK with me. After all, it will be up to each forum member if they want to visit the area and what to do with the information offered there. Those of us who have been autopians for a while are extremely educated and will certainly dismiss the slippery salesman pushing the five year sealant (haha). My vote would be yes but maybe we could start with a few well established ethical vendors (hard to control I know). We have many on here already, Patrick from Excel, Bob at Danase, Daragh, just to name a few (all class acts by the way). It could be a nice venue for those type of users to further promote their businesses, specials, and offer customer service. Oversight is key but David is already on that anyway so giving it a try shouldn't hurt. Who knows, it might even help prevent spam elsewhere in the forums. (ya right)

cherryspeed · 08-02-07, 07:43

Hard to call advertisers out when there are several threads a day "evaluating" Ultima products.
Where is the difference?