Question for PC users that switched to Rotary?

[doc-rice]

Originally Posted by blue-sun

Don't get me wrong, the swirls come out, but not as easily and not as many came out.

And I thought I was the only one: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3398042

[Aurora40]

Originally Posted by jw

I'm still having a tough time deciding if I should make the switch to the rotary or spend some more time with the pc. Does anyone that switched to a Rotary wish they wouldn't of, or people who switched but still prefer the PC?

Thanks

I think the time you will wish you didn't switch is the time you burn some paint or trim piece.

If the PC does the amount of correction you need, why switch? If you feel you want to make the jump to the rotary in order to see for yourself, it hardly matters what anyone else says.

My two cents, but things like rubber/plastic trim can pretty easily be burned by a foam pad. And paint on things like plastic bumpers can fairly easily be burned as well. But it's a great tool and if you need one, you need one. But if you don't, there's nothing wrong with the PC.

[JuneBug]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jw
I'm still having a tough time deciding if I should make the switch to the rotary or spend some more time with the pc. Does anyone that switched to a Rotary wish they wouldn't of, or people who switched but still prefer the PC?

Thanks

When I got my Makita- it was right up there with sliced bread! But like Aurora40 said - you'll have that "oh my God" moment when you see the paint peel right off a plastic trim piece and then you'll realize that you aren't rotary master - time to respect the machine, learn from your mistake and move on. My situation is I detail part-time, I get a lot of my business from a friend that sells used (really used) cars. I'm scared to put the rotary on these, the few times I did, I felt like an elephant walking on eggshells. The clear was so thin already, I was nervous as hell that I would burn right through it. I've found some light polish (Malco Nano) or Poliseal - both used on a orange LC pad on the PC works good, and has a nice safety net. I want to move up to a Cyclo, if you're on the fence about a rotary - consider a Cyclo, they're around $263-265 and Danase offers free shipping.

[Accumulator]

I dunno...IMO it's perfectly possible to not have that OMG moment with the rotary
Takes a certain mindset, but IMO it's like using a chainsaw- mistakes can be very serious but they don't necessarily ever have to happen.

Tape/remove all trim; pay close attention to what you're doing *every second* (consider taking breaks so you stay fresh and focused); err on the side of caution/resist the "just a little more..." temptation; give prior thought to what you'll do if the pad skips or something otherwise goes wrong.

I'm no rotary-Meister, but I can honestly say I've only had two incidents of damage:

'84 Volvo- I put a lot of the blame on the panel's having been badly repainted (burned a small area of clear in an instant at ~1200 rpms with polishing pad/3M 05937 while somehow not damaging the adjacent paint at all).

'97 M3- I took the paint off maybe 1/2" of a painted plastic trim panel's edge. I knew I was being mighty aggressive for the piece in question but it was so scratched up I woulda had it repainted had the marring not come out. As it was I touched up the damage and it looks a lot better than before I started. Still, this is a perfect example of "just a little more" getting somebody in trouble. And there's simply no way I could do that car's clear with a PC/Cyclo; it's taking *many* passes with the rotary/HT-EC/cutting pad/high rpms.

[JuneBug]

Here's the problem - everybody starts off with a lot of respect and maybe a little fear of the rotary. Then, you discover that hey, this ain't so hard, I'm buffing and the paint ain't flying off the car. After a few times you think you know all there is and maybe all the safety and respect talk was overdone, then it happens. Been there-done that, same thing with a chainsaw too - fortunitely my Levi's took the worst of it and I just got a scratch - damn right scary though! Anybody that does get a rotary, get a scrap hood or fender - most junk yards or bodyshops would be more than happy to let you practice on a piece of scrap. When you do, try to burn through the clear and then you'll have a good idea of what can happen, just remember - plastic is better left alone.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by JuneBug

Here's the problem - everybody starts off with a lot of respect and maybe a little fear of the rotary. Then, you discover that hey, this ain't so hard, I'm .. you think you know all there is and maybe all the safety and respect talk was overdone...

Yeah, guess that's where my broken-record caveat about "proper mindset" comes in. Whether we're talking rotaries, chainsaws, or [any other serious tool], some people really oughta say "no thanks". Maybe *most* people, at least when it comes to certain tools, but at least with the rotary we're just talking about cosmetic damage to cars.

Glad to hear your chainsaw mishap wasn't tragic! I've yet to nick my protective gear, but I still put it on every time even after decades of using the thing. Lots of pros have an oops with those no matter how experienced and careful they are, and there's a lesson in that.

I'm of two minds regarding the rotary on plastic: couldn't realistically do the correction I (sometimes) need without it, but all too aware that it's a risky proposition. You give it some thought and you take your chances

[SuperBee364]

Of course I have to add my controversial take on the "new guy on a rotary thing."...

Use wool.

I could do a four page rant on how I love wool, but I'll keep it simple, and with a new guy slant:

Wool is *very* easy to use. It does not get nearly as hot as foam, it doesn't skip as easily, is less sensitive to the amount of product you use, is easily cleaned with a spur and a brush as you go if you do over-do the product application, and is *much safer* for a new guy; the reduced heat gives you a better margin for error on plastic areas, as well as inadvertantly touching adjacent parts with the pad. It aslo cuts quicker. (Yeah, I think that's a safety advantage. Kinda like using a sharp knife). It's also available for every job you'd want to do: compounding, intermediate correction, final polish and even LSP application. It's also easier to use in hard-to-get-to places.

Lot's of people still say that you'll never finish down as well with wool, and that you'll end up with far more holograms, but I've converted a few peeps to "the dark side", and I'm still working on more. I'm only a part time guy. I do it cause I love to detail, not for money. I've only corrected a total of about 20 cars this year, but 15 of them have been with wool, and I've achieved the same results finishing with wool as I did with foam.

As Coupe's signature says, "Wool Rules. Foam Drools."

[SpeedEuphoria]

whats a good finishing wool then

[SuperBee364]

Edge 2000 wool color guide:

Black - Heavy compounding
Yellow - Medium correction
Green - Light correction
Blue - Very light correction/final polish
White - Has no cut to it. You can use this pad to really put a high shine on a car with a high quality finishing polish like PO106FF. This combination is *wonderful*, but it *will not* produce any correction at all. It's strictly to make the car shine, and OMG, it does a great job of it.

My favorite medium correction pad (my workhorse), is LC's purple foamed wool.

My current sytem (unless the car is heavily swirled and has serious defects), is:

Purple foamed wool with Menz SIP, then either green or blue wool (green for hard clear coats, blue for softer clears) with 106FF, then White wool with 106FF.

I can often skip the last step on softer clears, but most of the time I do it anyway.

I'd substitute Menzerna Intensive Polish instead of SIP for a guy new to the rotary. Using the system above (with regular IP instead of SIP) is a very safe and easy process for someone new to the rotary. You're not using very aggressive pads or polish (and not removing alot of clear coat), yet you'll still get very good correction ability, and the shine you'll end up with will knock your socks off.

Some basic safety rules:

Don't go over 1,000 rpm until you're very comfortable using the rotary.

Keep the buffer head moving over the paint the entire time that the head is turning.

Don't push hard.

Don't overwork (dry buff) the product

If you keep those simple rules in mind and try out the polishes/pads recommended above, I think you'll have a good first experience, and it should be safe, as well.

[wannafbody]

tape edges and avoid sharp creases. Use a light polish with a soft pad. Keep rpms moderate. Use common sense.

[Accumulator]

SuperBee364- Thanks for that nice concise summary of E2K's wool pads.

Any hologram issues we need to watch for?

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

SuperBee364- Thanks for that nice concise summary of E2K's wool pads.

Any hologram issues we need to watch for?

The main reason I love the purple foamed wool for medium correction is that it doesn't hologram the paint nearly as badly as the yellow edge 2000 wool does. It also finishes down much finer than the yellow edge. The holograms the purple foamed wool does leave aren't really "deep"; they are easily knocked out with green or blue wool and 106ff. On really hard paints, purple foamed with SIP will finish down LSP ready: no holograms, no compounding marks, nothing but shine.

I do get major holograms and compound swirling with the yellow edge wool, regardless of the aggressiveness of the polish being used. Not so with the green, and the blue just finishes down so well, you'd swear it was foam. The green and/or blue with 106ff blasts holograms and compounding marks incredibly well, leaving an LSP ready finish. For that extra 5% look, a final pass with 106ff and white wool is definitely concours de elegance.

Wool has knocked hours off of my polishing jobs. It cuts and breaks down polishes so much faster than foam it's truly amazing. Plus, its ease of use means I can normaly still use my arms after a full day behind the buffer. I can three-step a car (meaning i have time to go for that final 5%) with wool in the amount of time it takes me to two-step a car with foam.

Even though, IMHO, wool has no equivalent counter part in foam (it's just so superior), if I had to say "X wool is equivalent to X foam", I'd say:

Yellow Edge Wool = Yellow LC foam. Although the wool will leave compound marks and swirls that are much worse than the foam. But it also cuts *really* fast. You'll cut your compounding time in half using the wool.

Green Edge Wool = Orange LC foam. Not only will the wool cut quicker and get out medium/light defects faster, it will finish down as nice as, or better than, the foam. Green Edge Wool with SIP has more correction power than SIP with Orange foam.

Blue Edge Wool = Green LC Foam. Again, the wool will cut and finish faster than the foam. On very hard clear coats, the wool will knock your socks off. It'll get out holograms and compounding marks *much* better than foam will on hard clears.

White Edge Wool = Black LC Foam. No cut. Allows the polish to show off what it can do without any help from the pad. I know I'm always gushing about 106ff all the time, but a pass of it with the white wool will give you Rydawg and/or Picus-class results. Actually, I think this might be their secret formula.

Purple foamed wool is just in a class by itself. There is no foam equivalent. It's cutting power is above yellow foam, and not quite up to yellow wool. It's ability to correct medium and medium+ defects is unsurpassed by anything I've ever used. It cuts quick, and finishes down very well. How well depends on the softness of the clear it's used on, though. Softer clears will be left with some compounding marks and holograms, hard clears will be just beautiful. This pad is very sensitive to the quality of the polish it's used with. Use it with a lower quality polish, and you'll get lower quality results. Used with SIP or IP and it's a-mazing. Use it after really heavy compounding (think black wool with PG) with SIP or IP, and you may be able to skip a final polishing step.

Enough of my rambling... I'm working on a car today and gotta get back to it.