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Old 09-26-06, 09:03   #1 (permalink)
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OK I'm addicted but I have a few questions...

Brief background of this car guy, I've always been a fan of detailing (unfortunately by hand) and also always been short on time since I'm a Chef. So after talking to friend about getting a PC to start and speed up my whole process I finally made the jump a few weeks ago and picked up a 7336 SP from LOWES for $109. and no tax since I got it in NH

I have been lurking here for awhile reading and devouring loads of information, which BTW I must say I am completely impressed with the amount of helpful info easily accessible here, thank you in advance. I went ahead and picked up the Wolfgang DA Deluxe Foam Pad Kit. I also found a local shop with quite a nice selection of Megs Professional products. I picked up #1, #9, #3 & good old #26 which I've had VG results with in the past but haven't used in awhile since I have been hand applying and recently used Eagle 1 Nano wax for ease but unfortunately not an enduring cover.

OK the practice car I have is a Black 2001 Acura Integra Type R (actual color is B-92P or Night hawk Black Pearl), pretty much outfitted for track use, Autocross and High Performance Drivers Events with my local SCCA and NASA clubs. So as you can guess it's in reasonably bad shape with swirls, pits, chips and random cone and off course damage. But the paint has a deep awesome blue flake in the black and just looks amazing when clean or wet or properly polished and shined. I can get past the actual chips and damage since it's pretty much a purpose designed and outfitted car and not a show car.

So with PC and pads and polish in hand I wanted to learn on something that would pretty much show me most issues and or what the PC and various pad and polishes could do.

Fast forward to yesterday. I washed the car 2 times with Megs Deep Crystal Wash simply because my brother picked up several gallons on sale at Wallmart. Once because it sits outdoors with a cover but recently a storm took the cover off and it's been naked for a few weeks and a Second time to get all the track debris, oil, and especially rubber and brake dust off various areas.

Then I clayed it with Mothers OTS stuff since I had a brand new one laying around, Damned it takes some time to clay even a small car like that. My new EVO took alot less time because it's well, New and no problems or issues.

Then I started to work on the Hood. I figured if I fugged it up I could always remove it and get it repainted anyway since it has various chips and dents in it. I went through the whole process with the PC and LC pads and applied as much and in the same manner of product to the pads and car with minimal if any pressure as indictated by several articles here and posted videos:

First) Yellow with #1 worked it well, wiped it off with a MFT, did this 2 times because I needed to learn when the polish had broken down and it took a second time for me to figure that out Speed 2 for applying and up to Speed 5 till it broke down and wiped off easily. This took away most swirl marks and imperfections.

Second Orange with #9, again worked well, and took it off with the MFT, did this once and had no problems, noticed the hood looked particularly smooth and glossy after this stuff, attributed that to the known listed fillers in the product. Speed 2 for applying and up to Speed 5 till it broke down and wiped off easily. This made the hood look 90% to me besides the chips, but I could still see small straight scratches every so often, overall it looked a hell of alot better. But I wanted more depth.

Third White with #3 And here is where I had varying success and need help and comments This glaze went on well but didn't break down like the polishes? Dunno it felt like it took forever and actually caked up at times. Speed 2 for applying and up to Speed 5 BUT when I'd wipe it down it was extremely hard to remove and or created the infamous "HAZE". It happened several times all I can attribute the haze to is to my inexperience and the Glaze step since both polishes looked to do great jobs before I applied the Glaze.

Final Grey/Black with #26 Just awesome as I remembered it even by hand. Applying this stuff with the PC is a joy. So much so that I applied 2 layers and it wiped down extremely easily, alot easier than the #3 Glaze. Speed 2 to apply but only up to speed 3 then let it dry and wiped off easily.

I also did a door afterwards that not only had light swirls but severe R compound brake dust affliction (!!!Note to everyone Don't Ever Use Hawk Blue R Brake Compounds in the Wet, the result is severe corrosion of your paint and rusty haze afterwards!!!) It took several applications of the #1 again but following the 4 step process most of the brake dust is gone. Which for me is amazing because there is no way it came off before by hand and since it's a track beater I wasn't gonna spend money on someone to detail it just to get ruined again the next weekend out.

I didn't get to finish the whole car but that wasn't really my goal anyway. It was my first outing and I just wanted to learn how to use the PC. I found that when I took the correct time to apply, polish and clean the products that it actually moved rather quickly. But when I moved too fast, I'd have to redo a whole process. No biggy, I like to learn.


The BIG question is the #3 Glaze and my hazing issue with it, it's not really hazing unless the Glaze doesn't come off, then it's a total Pain In The *** to Wipe/Rub off. I apply it the same was as the first steps. I tried various speeds but only used the White pad since I only have the 4 right now. It seems I need to put excess Elbow Grease into removing it and I'm looking for suggestions.

Of course I have fretty much 75% more of the car to do in the future and definitely plan to buy more pads, at least a few Blue, Black/Grey and maybe White.
I also have two newer cars to do; one 2004 Dark Blue Trailblazer for the wife that looks sparklingly killer when cleaned and polished, and a 2006 Graphite Grey EVO MR that is in excellent shape and has a few coats of the Nano wax on it but I'd like something more durable since the winter is coming and I live in New York and will be daily driving it in the white crap.

Sorry for the long read but I'm new and very excited with my recent project and margianal success. Thank you for all and any help.


Anton


CLIFFS- Skip to #3 Glaze issue, TIA
 
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Old 09-27-06, 02:27   #2 (permalink)
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Hi Mr Chef, to Autopia.

Wow, that's one long intro. Lots going on, I'll pick out a couple things ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
...First) Yellow with #1 worked it well....
Is this #1 Medium Cut Cleaner or Deep Crystal "step 1" Cleaner? Meg's doesn't recommend #1 MCC be used with a PC. But hey, if it worked, it worked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
... Second Orange with #9, ... but I could still see small straight scratches every so often, overall it looked a hell of alot better. But I wanted more depth.....
#9 is really mild. If there were individually visible scratches before hand #9 usually won't remove them. But as you found the space in between them will get nicely shiny.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
...Third White with #3 And here is where I had varying success and need help and comments This glaze went on well but didn't break down like the polishes?....
A glaze with no cutting action doesn't need to break down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
... it felt like it took forever and actually caked up at times. ...BUT when I'd wipe it down it was extremely hard to remove and or created the infamous "HAZE".....
Use less, work a smaller area, don't let it dry. Just rub it in and wipe it off.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
...Final Grey/Black with #26 Just awesome as I remembered it even by hand....
Yup. #26 is great.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
.... I also did a door afterwards that not only had light swirls but severe R compound brake dust ... It took several applications of the #1 again but following the 4 step process most of the brake dust is gone....
That's curious, clay should have taken that off. Perhaps you should try to work the clay more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
.... The BIG question is the #3 Glaze and my hazing issue with it, it's not really hazing unless the Glaze doesn't come off, then it's a total Pain In The *** to Wipe/Rub off. ...
Like I said earlier, don't let a glaze (or a cleaner, cleaner/polish or compound) dry. Only waxes need to dry.


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Old 09-27-06, 07:35   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think I scared off responders with too much to read. lol

Yes the Megs #1 seemed to do rather well. Since I used it though I've read here that I might want to replace it with Megs #83? Or would you suggest something else?

Is there another polish you'd suggest rather than the #9 because I think you're right it didn't seem to do much but provide a smooth surface and I was hoping for a finer cut or finish? I've read possibly the #82?

Do I understand you correctly that I possibly overworked the #3 glaze?

I was under the wrong assumption with it then and trying to work it till it would break down like the #1 and #9 polishes. This makes sense. I wish there were pics or vids of the glazing technique and process because I feel I've gotten down the Polish and Wax processes pretty well and am looking forward to getting back out there and finishing the car up soon.

Thanks for your help and response
 
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Old 09-27-06, 08:52   #4 (permalink)
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I'd suggest getting Mothers Powerpolish(OTC and inexpensive)-easy to work with and it's aggressiveness is variable depending on the pad used.
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Old 09-27-06, 10:54   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
…Yes the Megs #1 seemed to do rather well. Since I used it though I've read here that I might want to replace it with Megs #83? Or would you suggest something else?…
It’s just that #1 was originally formulated for single stage paints and doesn’t always leave a good finish on clearcoats when used with a PC. Now they say it’s for rotary buffing only. But if it’s working for you I can’t argue with success.

#83 is rated to have slightly less cut than #1 and is designed for clearcoats. #83 is currently the most aggressive product that I Meg’s recommends for the PC and should be a good substitute.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
…Is there another polish you'd suggest rather than the #9 because I think you're right it didn't seem to do much but provide a smooth surface and I was hoping for a finer cut or finish? I've read possibly the #82?…
If the #9 didn’t change the finish much then you probably want a heavier cut than #9 or #82 (which is close to #9 in cut).

#80 is a great all-around product, more cut than #9 or #82 and less than #83, #1 or #2. It's also easier to work than #83, which some people find a bit finicky.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
…Do I understand you correctly that I possibly overworked the #3 glaze? …
Sounds like it from your description. Also probably used too much.



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Old 09-27-06, 11:32   #6 (permalink)
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I'll trade you my GS-R for the Type-R. It's a '98 with low mileage. Pretty please??

Post some pictures if you can.
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Old 09-28-06, 05:12   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

Post some pictures if you can.
Here we are at Watkins Glen last year:





The pics are from 2 different sessions but you can actually see how dirty it got from early in the day to a later session.
 
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Old 09-28-06, 05:45   #8 (permalink)
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If I had just waited a couple more weeks.........
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Old 09-29-06, 10:14   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the other pc
It’s just that #1 was originally formulated for single stage paints and doesn’t always leave a good finish on clearcoats when used with a PC. Now they say it’s for rotary buffing only. But if it’s working for you I can’t argue with success.
Well "working for me" could directly be attributed to just how abused the paint is currently as compared to using a better product on a newer car or paint in better condition but I understand what you're saying.

When using the #1 do I run any risks as per damage or are other products just easier to use?




Quote:
Originally Posted by the other pc
Sounds like it from your description. Also probably used too much.


PC.
Could you or someone outline the speeds and application of a glaze with the PC? As I was using speed 2 for application and speed 5 is where I ran into problems most likely working it till it was dry because I was looking for it to "break" like the polishes did.

Would I be better off just applying it at say speed 2 and then maybe speed 3 for just 1 or 2 passes then wiping it off? And how much glaze? I used a good amount of polish and got good results and I used alot less of the #26 wax and had great results. Do I just get the pad loaded and thats it for glaze? Or should I actually see the glaze on the panel I'm working?

Thanks again everybody for your help and suppport. Too bad it's raining here this weekend.
 
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Old 09-29-06, 11:23   #10 (permalink)
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I haven’t actually tried #1 with a PC but my understanding is that the older style abrasive formulas can leave modern clears with slight hazing, requiring further polishing steps to remove. All of the 80 series are designed to finish clears to or near final gloss. So whether you consider the hazing “damage” or an intermediate step towards the end sort of depends on you point of view.

Here’s Meguiar’s recommended pad/speed chart for the PC from their website:
 
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Old 09-30-06, 09:55   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chef
When using the #1 do I run any risks as per damage or are other products just easier to use?
Both. The abrasives in the #1 might leave (not-so-micro) marring that other products won't get out. Better to use PC-friendly products. If things are OK so far, I'd just consider it lucky.

Quote:
Could you or someone outline the speeds and application of a glaze with the PC?
All you're really doing with the #3/etc. is wiping it on the paint and working it enough to get it into the pores/micro-fissures/etc. that are in the surface of the paint. There's seldom a need for multiple passes (it goes on OK almost instantly) or for "working" the product (there's nothing to break down). You only need enough product to get complete coverage, most all of it gets wiped off anyhow. I can see it on the panel, but it's not like a Karate-Kid waxjob or anything...just a thin, translucent film on the paint.

I apply such products with a polishing pad (as opposed to a finishing pad) and I use speed 4 or so, just a personal preference. As long as the pad doesn't have any functional cut on your paint, it won't matter which one you use.

Working the product too long, or letting it dry, can make for huge hassles (I still remember such an incident with #7 from 1978 ). Wipe it on (using the PC if desired) then buff it off while it's still wet. Note that #5 is different, you can let it dry or not as desired, it's a foolproof product but the others (#3/#7/#81) are *not* foolproof.

I second the recommendation of #80, it's the only (abrasive) polish from Meguiar's that I really like.

And welcome to Autopia!
 
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