pressure!?!!

bpfoley · 06-24-06, 11:01

I thought I was using decent pressure with my PC, but today I had to really press hard (lean in) to a spot where I had paint transfer from a light scrape with a garage. I was really impressed that PB SSR2.5 and an FK green pad ate it up and left the finish great! Like the 4 inch white paint was never there!

THe thing is in doing this I used a ton of pressure over the whole area, and noticed that the panel came out great (swirls and all!) The rest of the car I was dissapointed because the swirls did reduce but not as much as I wanted. Do all you guys use this much pressure over the entire car? Maybe I should hit the gym because my arms were killing me!

Does the harder VW clearcoat also have anything to do with this?

steveo3002 · 06-24-06, 11:24

vw clear is hard....you need around 10-15 lbs of pressure on the pc

RP-350Z · 06-24-06, 12:57

I tried with no luck removing swirls from the VW clear coat. I just gave up after 2 or 3 hours of trying different combos and pressures and pads and products. I used OHC and that induced minor swirls while takin out the more major ones but then I couldn't remove the minor swirls with OC. Oh well. I'll just use some Z5Pro next time I do a full job on the VW.

MrSelfDestruct · 06-24-06, 08:59

Wool pad + 3M extra cut rubbing compound + pressure on rotary = great at removing mild scratches. Yes, it is a feel thing. If I'm attempting to remove a mildly deep scratch, I don't press for too long and I'll feel the paint to see how hot it feels...

Jimmy Buffit · 06-24-06, 11:11

In our shop, we regard the PC as a finishing tool.

A rotary is required for actual 'rectification' of paint, and then finished with the PC.

I always hope that a car can be done with a PC (Quickest), but we seldom find that to be the case.

Altho, today we did an 08/03 VW Toureg and it simply *popped* with no buffing at all. We simply applied a sealant (via PC).

Other threads bemoan the 'hardness' of VW/Audi paint. I think it is great stuff, when cared for properly! My wife's Silver VW 01 GTI VR6 is truly immacculate (no car washes), even tho I seldom give it the attention it deserves...

Jim

Accumulator · 06-25-06, 08:09

I too like hard paint and consider a rotary pretty much a necessity for its major correction. On VWs, I hear both sides of the coin and it has me

"It's as hard as an Audi"/"It's incredibly soft, I get micromarring with #80"

If you want to do any significant correction on hard paint with a PC, get a 4" pad setup. With the PC/6.5" I can round over marring and take out light stuff, but I just can't get the finish I want with that, or even the Cyclo. I know it *can* be done as I've removed fingernail scratches from behind doorhandles by hand, but I've spent literally hours on a single panel with the PC/6.5 (even with wool pads and 3M PI-II FCRC) and had virtually no results to show for it.

If you have hard paint, do yourself a favor and get the rotary. You can do major correction with pretty gentle approaches. (Yeah, you can use wool pads but you can also do it with foam if you want to play it safe, ditto with aggressive/mild products.) With hard, thick, factory clear a little common sense goes a long way.

bpfoley · 06-25-06, 08:45

I was afraid of this, I am very nervous when it comes to rotary, any suggestions as to machine and places/ways to learn?

Accumulator · 06-25-06, 09:13

I got the Makita myself.

Get the best, and lightest one you can afford. I'd get one that doesn't bog down/vary its speed when you apply some pressure (I like consistent performance).

Get the Meguiar's video on how to use it, but don't expect to absorb skill by osmosis

A Meguiar's tech seminar might be helpful.

If you're especially nervous about the whole thing, get a junk panel from a bodyshop/junkyard or practice on a beater.

Study, be careful, think, and IMO you should be fine. This is just my opinion but I'd say that people have trouble when they: under-think the whole thing, get careless (and it doesn't take much carelessness to have problems) or fatigued, fail to inspect as they go ("my whole car is hologrammed!") to spot problems before they become serious, and fail to resist the "just a little more..." temptation because they seek perfection when it's not reasonable.

I hadn't used a rotary in maybe 20 years, don't recall if I'd *ever* used one on basecoat/clear paint before, but I took the new Makita straight out of the box and used it on my beloved S8 with no problems at all. But note that I've been accused of "overthinking" detailing processes

and some people don't go about things the way I do.

MichaelM · 06-26-06, 03:28

Another tool option if you're nervous using a rotary would be a dual mode machine such as the Festool or Makita BO6040. They have much more powerful motors then the PC and can do much more correction, especially in "forced rotation" mode. I use a dual mode machine in my shop more then any other machine. My PC only gets work when the Dual mode is in use on another vehicle.

Accumulator · 06-26-06, 07:29

I'd try out the dual-motion/forced-rotation machine before you buy it. A few people have very strong opinions about how user-friendly it is (both positive and negative). Wouldn't want to find yourself on the wrong side of that fence after the money's spent

MichaelM · 06-27-06, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I'd try out the dual-motion/forced-rotation machine before you buy it. A few people have very strong opinions about how user-friendly it is (both positive and negative). Wouldn't want to find yourself on the wrong side of that fence after the money's spent

I have to say that the forced rotation mode is a bit trickier to handle then even a straight rotary but the DA mode alone makes the machine worth its weight. It works the same as a PC but MUCH more powerful, doesn't bog & runs smoother in your hands.

bpfoley · 06-27-06, 05:19

after watching a video on PC technique with Mike Phillips I am going to go at the car again with some Menzerna FPii (I also have some Menzerna IP) with an orange pad.

I realized it isn't pressure that I am missing, my work areas were too large and a few other tidbits I picked up. I can't wait to attack the car again. This time I see no reason it can't come out looking great.

Best $$ and 2 hours I spent with that dvd video.