Introducing swirls with my PC. What am I doing wrong?

hidesertmlb · 01-29-06, 09:04

I have a Black 2004 VW Jetta GLS. The car is not a daily driver, parked in the garage most of the time. Being aware of how sensitive Black cars can be to show imperfections, I have always taken utmost care in washing: use Meguiar's soap, microfiber mitts, use of two buckets with plenty of water, dry with an absorber towel (rinsing frequently).

I bought/applied Zaino two years ago after hearing rave recommendations from a co-worker who used it. Ever since I applied the Zaino, I introduced minor swirls onto the paint, despite using new/washed Fieldcrest cotton towels. With all the rubbing & buffing, it was no wonder how I got swirls into the paint. I wasn't sold on the Zaino product, nor impressed.

Being disappointed with the results, I started all over, using consumer-based Meguiars Deep Crystal 1-2-3 system (cleaner, polish, wax). OK results, but the swirls were still there.

I did some reading reading on this site, and bought a new PC 7424. This was last year. Along with the PC, I bought a Meguiars backing plate, 8006 and 9006 SoftBuff pads. My intent was to use 3MPI 3000 SMR to remove swirls. Or so I thought...

I washed the car and embarked on this task as a total newbie experience. I masked a section of a rear quarter panel to protect from compound and put on 9006 SoftBuff pad. I put an amount of SMR and procedded to work it in. Light to no pressure on the PC, overlapping sections. After working in the product in a 2x2 section with my PC set on 3, I wiped off a portion of the product to see how it was coming along. Well, it actually appeared as if I introduced more swirls, evident by the machine-signature-webbing. I tried a pass with the 8006 (slightly more aggressive pad), wiped, and really no change as compared to the first pad.

Disgusted, I wiped down the quarter panel with a microfiber towel, put on two coats of Meguiars NXT wax, and called it a day. I know the NXT is a band-aid (filling the swirls), but at least I wouldn't have to eye the swirls when I step into the garage.

I know there are numerous posts regarding this. My Jetta has soft paint. Even my fingernail induces scratching on its clearcoat. Any suggestions? I have thought about using other products, but I don't want a garage full of compounds/waxes if there is something I am doing wrong. I am miffed as to why the 3MPI 3000 SMR is not working for me. Is it the pads, is it my technique (or lack thereof), or is the 3M product too aggressive for my needs? Please help me out. A fool-proof recipe would be truly appreciated. I don't want to take to a detailer, as I know that this is something that I should be capable of doing. I know I don't have pics, but my Jetta's swirls are nowhere near as bad as some of the black "miracle cases" I have seen on this site.

scottabir · 01-29-06, 09:42

well first thing is crank the speed up, I use 3 to spread the product before I start the real polishing. I am not too familiar with the 3M stuff. I would suggest turning the speed up and working it in for a while. maybe step the working area down to a 1x1 area. and move the D/A SLOWLY using overlapping motions. Maybe move it about an inch a second maybe a touch slower. work the polish in until it has utilized all the abrasives. If you have a very soft C.C. use a polishing pad first and see if the swirls are removed. If the old ones from washing and terry towels been removed and you are left with new ones from the pad step down to a finishing pad and use a light polish for the final polishing.

Knockwurst · 01-30-06, 12:11

Welcome to the headache and frustration of VAG paint

aaron33 · 01-30-06, 01:35

You need to give the PC pressure. If you use it with no pressure, then the high spots of product/dirt/foam on the pad will introduce swirls. When you apply pressure, the whole face of the pad is in contact with the clear and will work out your swirls. Use more pressure and more speed. The PC can't do any swirl removal using the technique you described.

chpsk8 · 01-30-06, 12:24

More speed Scotty!!!!!

Apply it with 3, crank it up to 5 and work it back and forth unitl it starts to go opaque, then wipe it with a clean microfiber. You're halfway there! What you've been doing with the PC is just spreading the product around.

White95Max · 01-30-06, 01:21

The SMR is ABRASIVE! If you just push it around on low speed, those abrasives will never break down. If you wipe them off before they break down, there will be tiny scratches left that were produced by those abrasives.
Use speed 5 or 6.

blkyukon · 01-30-06, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by White95Max

The SMR is ABRASIVE! If you just push it around on low speed, those abrasives will never break down. If you wipe them off before they break down, there will be tiny scratches left that were produced by those abrasives.
Use speed 5 or 6.

^^^^Exactly^^^^^...ANY abrasive polish/compound needs to be worked in and broke down for it to do it's job. Most polishes go through stages, each product is different though, but basically they go from wet, flashing and dry . Without going through these stages you won't get the full effect of the polish and will most likely leave a dull finish (hazing).

The link below are examples of the stages Poorboys and Menzerna polishes go through when breaking down with a PC.

http://melncal.com/detailing/ssr.html

Hope this helps!

Accumulator · 01-30-06, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidesertmlb

I have a Black 2004 VW Jetta GLS. .. I introduced minor swirls onto the paint, despite using new/washed Fieldcrest cotton towels.... Even my fingernail induces scratching on its clearcoat. Any suggestions?

Welcome to Autopia! Sorry to hear you're having problems getting up to speed (pun intended

) with the PC. Marred black paint can be really irritating.

You've received good advice regarding working the SMR longer at a higher speed. I've used much harsher products than that, on much softer paint than yours, without leaving that kind of marring. You just have to break the abrasives down and that can take a while. FWIW, I do maybe 90% of my PC polishing on speed 6 with the remainder on speed 5. And it does take longer than most people expect.

Oh, and watch that you don't use too much product.

FWIW, Cannon/Fieldcrest cotton towels (I have a lot of Charismas) will mar many automotive paints that I've tried them on when used to wipe off product (and often when used to dry, unless you blot). Stick with high quality MF. And any automotive paint I've ever seen will be marred by a fingernail, with the possible exception of some single stage whites so your paint isn't super-sensitive or anything like that. It's just that auto paint is a lot more easily marred than most people could ever imagine and it's easy to see on black. The analogy I use is "consider it to be as delicate as the surface of your eyeball, and remember that unlike your eye it can't heal itself".

Raptor2k · 01-30-06, 02:02

Hmm, thanks for the link, yukon. Might just try that to get rid of some swirls using SSR2

PadawanPrime · 01-30-06, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkyukon

^^^^Exactly^^^^^...ANY abrasive polish/compound needs to be worked in and broke down for it to do it's job. Most polishes go through stages, each product is different though, but basically they go from wet, flashing and dry . Without going through these stages you won't get the full effect of the polish and will most likely leave a dull finish (hazing).

The link below are examples of the stages Poorboys and Menzerna polishes go through when breaking down with a PC.

http://melncal.com/detailing/ssr.html

Hope this helps!

Really great pics, I haven't seen them before. Thank for posting.

But they forgot to tape off the trim.

Peace.

Black240SX · 01-30-06, 10:11

Don't waste your time with the 3M SMR; it doesn't work well with a PC. Get something else, such as Megs #80 or Menzerna Final Polish II.

hidesertmlb · 01-31-06, 02:20

Thank you all for your responses and sharing your experiences thus far. It's great to hear from a crowd that's willing to pitch in their experiences to the new guy. So far, I think that my emphasis on my next attempt at making right on my job will be to:

1. Crank up the speed on the PC!
2. Work the product completely in until opaque.
3. Use more pressure, working in a smaller section.
4. Patience and time.
5. Putting a halogen light over my work will probably help. I have crummy lighting in my garage.

I found the link by blkyukon to be helpful, as the pics showed something else i wasn't doing- working over the same area in opposite direction. I see how after passing each section it's changed: horizontal, vertical, horizontal, etc..

It sounds like there's no qualms about the pads I'm using, so I'll assume they're fine. The camp seems split or neutral about 3M product. I *might* be picking up some Meguiar's #80. We'll see after I work a section.

Don't want to throw everyone off here. I am a noob with a PC, but as a part-time car hobbyist, I have done a little polishing on a bodywork/refinish job in the past. Completed as a hobby, done on a tiny budget with Harbor Freight tools in hand (don't laugh). I'll see if I can round up a pic or two. Moons ago, I used 3MFI after color sanding and buffing out a new paint job (2-stage) with waffle and wool pad, conventional rotary polisher, and had excellent results. Working for the first time with a random-orbit PC on a factory finish doesn't have the same feel to to working with freshly color-sanded paint (at least for me anyway).

As for getting the old NXT wax off, any suggestions? Do I really need to be concerned in getting it off, since polish will cut through anyway? The paint is clean (car has little road time @ 5k miles), so I don't think I need to clay the car as there is no accumulation of residue/dirt on the finish. Or am I assuming wrong?

Thanks again for all of your help and professionalism-