anyone else have a little trouble with the 105 205 combo? - Page 5

Jakerooni · 10-29-09, 10:11

Just reading through this and I do have to add... via the PC... I've having nothing but trouble and sub par results with the 105/205 combo. Now I don't want to toss out the word "Filling" but it seems to me something is going on here that I haven't experienced before with the combo. I've talked with several other pro's that have used it and they seem to be on the same thought process. via rotary I don't seem to have any issues. So I'm still looking into the problem. But I'm getting almost the exact results as pictured eariler in this post with the PC. It's got me worried now.

Accumulator · 10-29-09, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerooni

Just reading through this and I do have to add... via the PC... I've having nothing but trouble and sub par results with the 105/205 combo. Now I don't want to toss out the word "Filling" but it seems to me something is going on here that I haven't experienced before with the combo.

Maybe PC's the lack of speed/direct application of force fails to dissipate the oils or something

I still think M105/M205 is the best combo (at least for the paints I'm working, you pros probably encounter many more, differing situations) for what it does via PC/Flex 3401, but yeah, there are times when it can be mighty frustrating having to clear things up after the major work has been done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

...you're selling the M3?? I'da let the new guy put all the effort in to it... wait... no, actually I wouldn't.

Eh...I'm pointing out all the issues, including the over-thinned clear. It's going to a dealer that I have a good relationship with; he and I are always up-front with each other. Anyhow, I'd rather lose money than try to slip something by anybody.

The car is maybe ~$2K away from being really, really wondeful, hope the next guy spends the money.

David Fermani · 10-29-09, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerooni

Just reading through this and I do have to add... via the PC... I've having nothing but trouble and sub par results with the 105/205 combo. Now I don't want to toss out the word "Filling" but it seems to me something is going on here that I haven't experienced before with the combo. I've talked with several other pro's that have used it and they seem to be on the same thought process. via rotary I don't seem to have any issues. So I'm still looking into the problem. But I'm getting almost the exact results as pictured eariler in this post with the PC. It's got me worried now.

Hmmmm, that's intersting. Maybe you're doing something wrong? I've witness zero filling with 105 via KBM. You should call Kevin and he might be able to coach you a tad bit. It's really technique dependant. It's a very valueable and highly used proess in my arsenal these days. I know you'd love it if you shared the same results as me as well as many others. It's like using liquid sandpaper to adrade away defects with very little micromarring. It's actually quite amazing. I've demo'd it to quite a few body shops and nothing is more
pleasurable then watching the look on a painter's face when they see the results that can be done. Every single one doubted it at 1st.

gmblack3a · 10-29-09, 11:46

Constant firm pressure, no letting up for the last few passes using M205. Also the flat not the CCS pads work much better. Keep your pads very clean using a brush and compressed air.

dheath · 10-29-09, 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Fermani

Hmmmm, that's intersting. Maybe you're doing something wrong? I've witness zero filling with 105 via KBM. You should call Kevin and he might be able to coach you a tad bit. It's really technique dependant. It's a very valueable and highly used proess in my arsenal these days. I know you'd love it if you shared the same results as me as well as many others. It's like using liquid sandpaper to adrade away defects with very little micromarring. It's actually quite amazing. I've demo'd it to quite a few body shops and nothing is more
pleasurable then watching the look on a painter's face when they see the results that can be done. Every single one doubted it at 1st.

David if you've got time and wouldn't mind making a video for us, it would be nice to see the demo you show body shops. Not to mention tips and results expressed at the same time we can actually see the progress being made.

no pressure though

David Fermani · 10-29-09, 06:20

HaHa - You'd be better off waiting for Kevin Brown's paper to come out before you catch me trying to post a video.

Jakerooni · 10-29-09, 07:18

Well there's a couple of things that it could be. first being the CCS pads. (only small D/A sized pads I currently have) Intially the results are like glass. it's a couple of days later that things seem to be showing back up. I'm almost positive it's just my technique as I don't use the D/A for correction purposes. But I really wanted to give this a shot. And like I said. Out in direct sunlight even after checks it looked great. but 48 hours later just not the case. It was spotty. (which is also leading me to think technique) some parts were still smooth as butter while others were looking like they were never even touched by anything. Never had this issue with the rotary. But the past few details I've done with the D/A have all seemed to come back to bite me in the arse. I know the pressure is good. Guessing the pad choice needs to be dealt with first and see if that helps. Thanks for the suggestions

Accumulator · 10-30-09, 09:47

Jakerooni- That's helpful info IMO with regard to figuring out what's going on!

I did a *lot* of "coarse-correct it then leave it for days" 105 work on some vehicles (me and my weeks-long projects :0 ).

I *did* find the micromarring was much more obvious after it sat for a while. Not quite the same thing as the more serious issues you're rediscovering, but maybe the same root cause- all the oils.

Similarly, I've had some pretty dramatic oils-dissipating issues when I used M205 on exterior plastics too..after a few days they looked *worse* than when I started!

I kinda suspect that your pads are making it harder for you to do uniform work and that the "kinda skipped over" areas are harder to spot because of the oils.

I wonder how IPA/PrepWash/etc. would help...might make it a lot easier to see the areas that need more attention.

Given your usually rotary-centric approach, I think it's perfectly understandable that some areas aren't getting quite enough correction; even when KMBing it's just not the same as hitting a panel with the rotary. Heh heh, yeah...even for *me*, and I'm Mr. so-NOT-a-Rotary-Meister

What size pads were you using, and which PC, the regular one? Kevin Brown and I have kicked this around a few times, and those big pads just don't do it for me.

Jakerooni · 10-30-09, 10:34

I have the 5.5 pads for my D/A. I plan on making a pad order in the next week or so and I'm getting a whole new stock of flat pads various sizes. Maybe once I get those in I'll give this a shot again. Right now I'm more concerned about previous clients that might have picked up a "Good looking" car by all standards.. I know I need to go touch up some spots on that Ram I did. (heading there tomorrow) I've been contacting other clients as well to see if their results have remianed the same or have gotten spotty. Last thing I want is to be selling spotty services.

Accumulator · 10-30-09, 10:40

Jakerooni- Understood regarding your clients. Also, this might be a case of trying to fix something that's not broken, since you do so well via rotary.

Anyhow, I'd be interested to hear what you think if you revisit this with the smaller pads.

Cactus1 · 10-31-09, 04:49

I used the M105-M205 combo today on my '95 F-150. I see what everyone means about the 105 flashing so quickly! I was using a Flex 3401 with LC orange flat pads and I had very little working time; it did remove alot of swirls and minor scratches though. Pain in the a$$ to remove.

I liked the 205. It gave good work time and gave me non of the troubles the 105 did. If they could only make 105 work more like 205...

Accumulator · 11-01-09, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cactus1

I used the M105-M205 combo today on my '95 F-150. I see what everyone means about the 105 flashing so quickly! I was using a Flex 3401 with LC orange flat pads and I had very little working time; it did remove alot of swirls and minor scratches though. Pain in the a$$ to remove....

Only offering advice as the Flex 3401/LC flat orange is what I've done most of my M105 work with...

Assuming you're primed the pads properly/thoroughly, try working smaller areas. It's kinda funny how small I end up making my areas of operation, I mean, for a ~6" pad I'm sure not covering much ground, but I find the M105 mighty user-friendly so maybe that has something to do with it.

Also, a little spritz of #34 before buffing off the M105 residue has all sorts of benefits, including making it buff off even easier.