anyone else have a little trouble with the 105 205 combo?

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by bert31

TOL sells PrepWash but isn't it a product of HiTemp?

Yeah. Hi-Temp is either the TOL in-house brand or some company that Irene is otherwise closely associated with. The stuff in SuperBee364's link *is* the right stuff.

WHOLE LOT better than Dawn washing, if only because it's a W-O-W-O product (heh heh, it's so effective that SuperBee364 was a little :nervous about using it that way instead of rinsing it, and the rinsing probably isn't a *bad* idea).

Originally Posted by Matt_H

Do you guys do a IPA wipedown after m105 and then again after m205, and is it really that necessary?

I only do it after the M205, but if you're remotely concerned that the oils/etc. from M105 might be masking defects then do it after that step too.

"Is it necessary after M205?" Well.... I can argue that both ways. Heh heh, in a discussion with Mike Phillips I found myself pretty much 50:50 on the subject.

*IF* you really want to have a finish that's 100% in all lighting, then yeah, I'd say you need to get the oils off. OR you can use a product that conceals/covers them; KAIO won't do it (doesn't remove the oils either IME), but Autoglym SRP and 1Z WPS work OK. But those products don't necessarily give the absolute best final look either.

But as Mike was quick to point out, nobody's gonna follow you around with a SunGun inspecting your paint either. Well, *I* might IF having your finish look OK under 99% of lighting conditions is satisfactory for you, then if you don't see a problem, don't worry about whether you have that problem or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if some LSPs cover up or otherwise eliminate the issue either, I've just never had it work that way for me (which probably isn't saying much as I don't have all that much experience with this stuff).

If you see the issue under *your* lighting conditions however, then you'll probably want to deal with it.

Originally Posted by MR Detail Shop

What mix ratio do you use for teh IPA wipe down? I am assuming its not 100% IPA. Also one you have it dilluted a bit you still spray it on the MF towel first correct?

I spray it on the panel and let it dwell for a while. If you wipe it on, be sure to use enough that it gets the adequate dwell time and doesn't just flash off without cleaning much of anything.

I've been using it straight, but others think it oughta be diluted. I've yet to hear a compelling reason why.

But again, I find IPA to be only moderately effective on the M205's oils. After a few IPA wipes I *still* got a lot of oils off by doing a PrepWash wipedown.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Matt_H

Do you guys do a IPA wipedown after m105 and then again after m205, and is it really that necessary?

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Yeah. Hi-Temp is either the TOL in-house brand or some company that Irene is otherwise closely associated with. The stuff in SuperBee364's link *is* the right stuff.

WHOLE LOT better than Dawn washing, if only because it's a W-O-W-O product (heh heh, it's so effective that SuperBee364 was a little :nervous about using it that way instead of rinsing it, and the rinsing probably isn't a *bad* idea).



I only do it after the M205, but if you're remotely concerned that the oils/etc. from M105 might be masking defects then do it after that step too.

"Is it necessary after M205?" Well.... I can argue that both ways. Heh heh, in a discussion with Mike Phillips I found myself pretty much 50:50 on the subject.

*IF* you really want to have a finish that's 100% in all lighting, then yeah, I'd say you need to get the oils off. OR you can use a product that conceals/covers them; KAIO won't do it (doesn't remove the oils either IME), but Autoglym SRP and 1Z WPS work OK. But those products don't necessarily give the absolute best final look either.

But as Mike was quick to point out, nobody's gonna follow you around with a SunGun inspecting your paint either. Well, *I* might IF having your finish look OK under 99% of lighting conditions is satisfactory for you, then if you don't see a problem, don't worry about whether you have that problem or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if some LSPs cover up or otherwise eliminate the issue either, I've just never had it work that way for me (which probably isn't saying much as I don't have all that much experience with this stuff).

If you see the issue under *your* lighting conditions however, then you'll probably want to deal with it.



I spray it on the panel and let it dwell for a while. If you wipe it on, be sure to use enough that it gets the adequate dwell time and doesn't just flash off without cleaning much of anything.

I've been using it straight, but others think it oughta be diluted. I've yet to hear a compelling reason why.

But again, I find IPA to be only moderately effective on the M205's oils. After a few IPA wipes I *still* got a lot of oils off by doing a PrepWash wipedown.

Nervous?? Heck, I was *scared*! I didn't even dare get the stuff on the concrete.

After having used Prep Wash a bit now, I'm more impressed than ever. It really does get *everything* off of your paint. I'm not convinced that it *itself* completely evaporates, though, so I do follow it up with a very quick IPA wipe just to get any cleaners left behind by the Prep Wash.

And I gotta agree with you about the M205 "holos". A lot of what I was seeing as holos from 205 were, in fact, "substances" (not gonna use the "filling" word) left behind by 205. There were some holos, yes, but the 205 does leave behind a whitish residue that, when very little of it remains on the paint, can give you major holo effects. And it is very difficult to remove that residue with just IPA. Straight 91% IPA will do it after getting pretty jiggy with it. A Prep Wash QD followed by IPA QD gets it up fast and easy.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

... I'm not convinced that [PrepWash] *itself* completely evaporates, though, so I do follow it up with a very quick IPA wipe just to get any cleaners left behind by the Prep Wash...

Yeah, gotta admit that I do that too if I'm not using something that cleans afterwards (e.g., KAIO/etc.).

..And it is very difficult to remove that [M205] residue with just IPA. Straight 91% IPA will do it after getting pretty jiggy with it. A Prep Wash QD followed by IPA QD gets it up fast and easy.

Yeah, I'm SOOO thankful that you rekindled my interest in PrepWash (AKA "Removes All", HT-203 or whatever the number is/was...) Really great stuff.

I'm using up my old jug of Removes All by cleaning out the garage washing machine's basket and agitator with it Must've gone weak from age or something.

[Turbocress]

well, its actually a good thing to finally hear something about hitemp..... there is a dealer near me (not sure where it originated, i thought it was here because they do all their mixing of every product in house here...) but i will go down and pick up a bottle of their prep wash and add it to my arsenal after hearing such good things about it..

anyone else know anything of theirs that is worth it to add in??? i was a bit skeptical of buying some of their stuff after one of their guys tried to sell me their black paste wax and told me it was better quality than souvereign and blackfire waxes.... and then trying their quick detailer, turned out to be a very watery solution that streaked alot and took multiple wipes with a dry cloth to remove.... good to hear they have some good things though

[Accumulator]

While I did use a lot of H-T Extreme Cut leveler before M105 came out, and I do still like their Heavy Cut leveler/"357" for some things, the PrepWash is their only gotta-have product IMO.

Their stuff is OK, but IMO it's kinda like "circa 1980s OK".

[Turbocress]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

While I did use a lot of H-T Extreme Cut leveler before M105 came out, and I do still like their Heavy Cut leveler/"357" for some things, the PrepWash is their only gotta-have product IMO.

Their stuff is OK, but IMO it's kinda like "circa 1980s OK".

thats odd, considering that one of their motto's is that they contantly change their formulas to keep them up to date and competative.... lol


although i do actually like their grape dressing for tires, i just dont like the heavy petroleum content thats in it... and the white luster which is the same thing except non flammable is ok but doesnt last nearly as long...

ever tried their extreme suds and sparkling suds washes that supposedly generate a ton of foam??? id be interested to see how they work with a foam gun.

[SuperBee364]

I haven't tried them myself, but BigJimZ28 has some good things to say about their AIO's, too.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by Turbocress

thats odd, considering that one of their motto's is that they contantly change their formulas to keep them up to date and competative.... lol

Heh heh, [insert cynical comment here].

But OTOH, they *did* reformulate (and rename) the PrepWash, so maybe I oughta cut 'em some slack.

although i do actually like their grape dressing for tires, i just dont like the heavy petroleum content thats in it... and the white luster which is the same thing except non flammable is ok but doesnt last nearly as long...

Eh, the grape scent would gag me. Never tried the white luster stuff though.

ever tried their extreme suds and sparkling suds washes that supposedly generate a ton of foam??? id be interested to see how they work with a foam gun.

Nah, lots of foam is antithetical to how I use the foamgun. Other than the price, Griot's Car Wash is 100% perfect for me, and I do mean *perfect*.

[Turbocress]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Heh heh, [insert cynical comment here].

But OTOH, they *did* reformulate (and rename) the PrepWash, so maybe I oughta cut 'em some slack.




Eh, the grape scent would gag me. Never tried the white luster stuff though.


Nah, lots of foam is antithetical to how I use the foamgun. Other than the price, Griot's Car Wash is 100% perfect for me, and I do mean *perfect*.

yeah i might give a couple of their things a try, but im not experienced enough with other brands to really give an opinion except as a standlone opinion on it.






ok, news for the pads and stuff for the buffing optins ive tried now.




checked the panel after using the prepwash to remove all the wax and sealant. heavily hologrammed with what looked like wide swirls... no scratches, but its like long sweeing holograms were on the panel....

so i went with an orange 5.5 lc pad, with m105. i put a little bit of 105 on the pad and spread it around until the whole top of the pad had a little whiteness from the 105 on it (to prime). then gave a dime size amount of polish on the pad. put it on the panel and worked a 1 foot square space using slow movements until the product was translucent... wiped it from the area, and it looked like it did quite a bit, but still had a LOT of micro marring/scratches that you could tell came from the PC.

do i went back and did it again and worked more product on, after about 6-7 passes i went and wiped it away again and it looked ok... sprayed some prep wash, let it dwell for 45 secs or so, then wiped it away, and i could see a large amount of marring and figured i wouldnt be able to get it any better with the 105. so i switched to 205, primed my white pad, and worked the same area for about 7-8 passes until it was translucent. wiped away and it looked ok.... from farther away you cant see much marring or scratching from a side shot with the brinkmann. but if you sort of aim it down on the panel like the sun i can see A LOT of horizontal marks, some looked like scratch, some looked like what you would get from a bad towel.... these were new MF clothes, but i tried wiping vertically to remove the product and the prep wash and IPA as well. and it still only had the horizontal marks.



what am i doing wrong? i tried a white, green, and black pad for the 205 step, the white seemed like it did ok, the green left some marring, and the black left a better finish than the white, but i still had those horizontal marks that the 105 didnt seem to remove...

am i just simply not working the 105 enough? or am i missing something else? in some areas with large halogen lights, you cant see anything and it looks perfect, not sure what else to do now.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Turbocress

yeah i might give a couple of their things a try, but im not experienced enough with other brands to really give an opinion except as a standlone opinion on it.

ok, news for the pads and stuff for the buffing optins ive tried now.

checked the panel after using the prepwash to remove all the wax and sealant. heavily hologrammed with what looked like wide swirls... no scratches, but its like long sweeing holograms were on the panel....

so i went with an orange 5.5 lc pad, with m105. i put a little bit of 105 on the pad and spread it around until the whole top of the pad had a little whiteness from the 105 on it (to prime). then gave a dime size amount of polish on the pad. put it on the panel and worked a 1 foot square space using slow movements until the product was translucent... wiped it from the area, and it looked like it did quite a bit, but still had a LOT of micro marring/scratches that you could tell came from the PC.

do i went back and did it again and worked more product on, after about 6-7 passes i went and wiped it away again and it looked ok... sprayed some prep wash, let it dwell for 45 secs or so, then wiped it away, and i could see a large amount of marring and figured i wouldnt be able to get it any better with the 105. so i switched to 205, primed my white pad, and worked the same area for about 7-8 passes until it was translucent. wiped away and it looked ok.... from farther away you cant see much marring or scratching from a side shot with the brinkmann. but if you sort of aim it down on the panel like the sun i can see A LOT of horizontal marks, some looked like scratch, some looked like what you would get from a bad towel.... these were new MF clothes, but i tried wiping vertically to remove the product and the prep wash and IPA as well. and it still only had the horizontal marks.



what am i doing wrong? i tried a white, green, and black pad for the 205 step, the white seemed like it did ok, the green left some marring, and the black left a better finish than the white, but i still had those horizontal marks that the 105 didnt seem to remove...

am i just simply not working the 105 enough? or am i missing something else? in some areas with large halogen lights, you cant see anything and it looks perfect, not sure what else to do now.

Try switching from the white pad (which is, I'm assuming, a Lake Country white pad) to a zero bite pad, and re-do the area with 205. That will at least eliminate the pad as the source of the marring.

Any chance you could post some pics?

[Turbocress]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Try switching from the white pad (which is, I'm assuming, a Lake Country white pad) to a zero bite pad, and re-do the area with 205. That will at least eliminate the pad as the source of the marring.

Any chance you could post some pics?

sure thing i can post some pics.


ive switched from the white lc pad to the gray lc pad (which has zero to any bite, but i havent even seen anyone having to use anything softer than a gray lc pad with 205 to finish out).

gotta get some pictures in a minute here, if i cant get them tonight ill post them tomorrow.

just sort of frustrating to see the marring im seeing when ive done this under the dual halogen lights before and had nothing but great results, but i guess the right lights show you want you arent doing right.


are there any videos on m105 and 205 uses with the proper working area, product use, priming, and wiping/finish techniques? i cant help but thing its just the way im working it in, that i may be working it too much or not enough. ive tried faster strokes and slower strokes on the gray pad with 205... faster strokes gives hologramming, slower stroked still has the scratching.

[Turbocress]

well. i was hoping for better results when i went back out and tried it one more time. but it just seems like it wasnt going to work at all.. still have hazing.scratching in 1 direction regardless of how much i do an ipa wipe to remove the fillers and silicones etc.

what temperature do these polishes not perform well under? its been about 45-50 maybe lower at night today, just wondering if a lower temperature is going to severely effect the outcome of using 105 and 205... i had used them in a moderate temperature and they didnt seem to have any trouble at all performing.... and now its the complete opposite, whatever i do, they just arent working properly.

here is before starting.



after working 105 into the paint, this is about 8 passes, moderate pressure starting, softer pressure for the last 4 passes



no flash



after wiping away





this is what the pad looked like after wiping residue off and priming for the second pass to try to remove some more hazing



after the second set of passes, it looked like this



some improvement but the hazing is ridiculous

i primed my gray lc pad the same way, and did 8-10 passes on the surface of th epaint, moderate pressure for the first 4 passes, and the last set of passes on it were light pressure (about 8 lbs). almost no improvement if any, some of it looks ok, but it looks like a huge amount of scratches still remain, not like a clean paint surface should look



heres an example of whats left after going through all the steps.



no clue why... even doing verticle wipes to remove compound there are still horizontal hazing.


so would temperature affect the polishes THAT much????? something is messed up and i cant figure it out. i may go wash the pads out really really good and see what i can come up with. any advice is very welcome.