Used Search & read endless threads.....

djs134 · 09-30-09, 06:11

nOOb here and in the past several weeks, I've read through what seems to be hundreds of threads and used the search function to clarify any questions. Btw, the Secret Decoder Ring is great! I've been on a few boards for my other OCD issues (Coffee & Cigars) and had to fight through the acronyms before. And the Stickys are very helpful.

So, anyhow, after some Advil and a glass of bourbon for my headache, I've decided that my original plan of hand working my cars was not quite as feasible as I'd though given the fact that I have to work during the day....

Neither of my cars are in terrible shape and both are post 2000 so have CC. I'm debating between the PC 7424 and Griot's Garage 6". It's mostly down to what I can get for my money there since all of the threads seem to put them pretty close together (Griot's having a bit more power for the larger pads). Leaning toward the Griot's, but ......

As far as the products.... I'm leaning toward a M83/ScratchX/M9/M81 combo. I've read the the M105/205 combo is very good, but being new to this, I'd rather have the product diminish on me so I don't over work the surface. I'm sure that down the road (when I get more comfortable with the DA) I'll go with the non diminishing products and use pressure to ease the abrasion.

Any comments on the direction I'm heading? They would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

DavidB · 09-30-09, 06:30

Daniel,

I have no first hand experience with the Griot's machine, but I have sold thousands of Porter Cable polishers over the past 10 years. The rate of failure on the PC is so low as to be laughable. Our sponsors carry both machines, and they'd love to have your business.

In so far as pad size and type of polish, I am a proponent of smaller diameter (5" to 6") and thinner (1" seems to work best) for all DA machines, regardless of brand. They simply do a better job of "working the polish".

On polishes, you're going to get a lot of recommendations. You will have to find out what works best for you and the cars you're polishing on. A word to the wise... be gentle on your paint and start with low abrasive polishes. Keep the big guns where they belong... locked up til you really need them.

NSXTASY · 09-30-09, 06:42

First, Welcome to Autopia.

Second, your apparent searching and reading is quite refreshing. It seems as if you have a decent grasp of the process.

Machine-Pick a machine that fits your budget 7424/XP/Griots/G110 and purchase it from a reputable seller, so if an when you have an issue you can resolve it swiftly. Griots has a lifetime warranty if I'm not mistaken, which is quite attractive.

Pads- As you have likely read, a smaller pad and Backing Plate(BP) will be more effective. 5.5 and/or 4" work well. Orange, white and 1 blue/grey to start should be sufficient.

Polish/Compound-I wouldn't worry about the diminishing v. non-diminishing. Your pad choice generally dictates the level of cut with both abrasives and always start with the least abrasive combination. I would go with M205 at the very least and skip the older generation of Megs. Grab a small sample bottle of it from AutoDetailingSolutions or the like and pick up some Megs Ultimate Compound over-the-counter if you need something more aggressive. Get the feel for M205 and the process of polishing, then start to experiment with other polishes and compounds.

Grab a wax or sealant and post some pictures.

HTH

Setec Astronomy · 09-30-09, 06:50

I'm not going to wade into the diminishing vs. non debate, but IMO the M83/ScratchX/M9/M81 is a bit redundant, if you're going to go with the MG line, I'd skip the ScratchX. If it were me I'd just go with the M83 followed by M80, I'm not sure how much the M81 is really going to do for you...although I'm sure I'll get some argument about that.

tomstin · 09-30-09, 07:06

First, let me add my welcome! It's hard to go wrong with M83 and M80. In the future you will find yourseld trying other products, but the M series is a staple in most arsenals. Finish it off with some Meguiars NXT and you're good to go. We will debate endlessly over which product is "better", but that combination is a great starter set.

Another thought, reach out to others in your area. Most of the group is very helpful and willing to get together locally to help get you started, offer suggestions and trade some products.

SCoach · 09-30-09, 07:14

Welcome to Autopia.

I am going to give you my personal opinion.

1. The Porter Cable 7424 is a very friendly machine, and is nearly bulletproof.

2. In terms of paint, you shouldn't need to do more than 2 polishing/finishing steps. For home use honestly, here's what I recommend.

A. Megs Ultimate Compound. (This will remove swirls, etc.) You should only need to do this infrequently, maybe once a year or two, but use it for your first polish to get a good surface to start with.

B. A fine polish. I use Poorboys World SSR2 or SSR1, but there are dozens of good options out there.

C. A good sealant. I use Optimum Poli-Seal on my own car and most customer cars. Occasionally I will use the Wolfgang Sealant as I feel it's the best available. But it's quite pricey. If I am going to do do a general wax, I will use Surf City Garage's liquid wax. It's easy, works amazingly well, and is inexpensive.

If you want to get into this as a business, then I can see going for pro line stuff. But honestly, for home use, most of it is overkill and will just confuse you or have you doing WAY more work than necessary.

My normal routine on my daily driver is tires/wheels, wash, dry, poli-seal, repeat 3-4 months later.

djs134 · 09-30-09, 07:18

Thanks for the comments so far. Certainly going to review my product choice. From the Abrasion Chart, it seemed that the M83 was being rather gentle (as well as some of the comments I've read about it) but maybe still a bit to aggressive to start with. The ScratchX was for spot treatment of deeper defects and I should have indicated that I planned on doing that by hand.

I think I'll go back and look over my notes. From what I gathered about the diminishing polishes is that the particles broke down to finer and finer sizes and essentially "stepped down" for you so that you didn't over work the surface. Not true? Maybe the MUC/205 combo would be better for me then.

I know that the info is out there, it's just a matter of putting it in context and digesting it.... I apologize, this info has been hashed over on numerous occasions and yet, even by reading the threads, there are still questions when you start trying to make your own decisions.... why is that?

Again, thanks for the comments, keep 'em comming!

SCoach · 09-30-09, 08:20

No need to apologize, that's why we are here. But I do want to stress again, that you are on a site generally aimed at professional detailers. And the choices that a pro might make may not necessarily translate all that well for someone at home trying to take care of their own vehicles.

Take M105. If you've got 2 cars to do, you may only need M105 once every 5 years. For someone seeing 5 cars a week, that purchase might make good sense. I bought 4 or 8 oz versions of a number of products and tried them out on my car or friend's cars. Some stuff I decided to buy in larger amounts because I used them a lot. Some stuff, I just never re-bought.

Try not to go overboard with the info you get here, and hopefully, people will recognize the context in which you are asking and *not* give you advice as though you were a pro starting out.

Setec Astronomy · 09-30-09, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCoach

But I do want to stress again, that you are on a site generally aimed at professional detailers.

Try not to go overboard with the info you get here, and hopefully, people will recognize the context in which you are asking and *not* give you advice as though you were a pro starting out.

You know, I take umbrage to that statement. I think we have a really broad cross-section of members here, and it's NOT "aimed at professional detailers", although it is aimed at getting exemplary results.

I also don't think it's common for members to mistake the context of newb questions of "enthusiast" vs. "beginning pro", although it's common for newbs to be overcome by the depth and nuance of the info here, and some didn't want to get in that deep, but giving a newb more detail than he wants to hear is different than mistaking him for a pro.

I'm not disagreeing with you that this site is not best suited for someone who doesn't want to go "overboard". Your advice to buy sample sizes of polishes is a good one, almost all of us have too many products.

Kevin Brown · 09-30-09, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by djs134

... From what I gathered about the diminishing polishes is that the particles broke down to finer and finer sizes and essentially "stepped down" for you so that you didn't over work the surface...

This is correct, but there is no way for the average Joe to know which is finer- the diminishing abrasive AFTER it has diminished, or the non-diminishing abrasive as it was designed.
As an example, if you compared the finishing capabilities of M83 and M105, oftentimes M105 will finish out better than M83. It is hard to believe but it is true.

Keep in mind that all types of technologies get better with time, even buffing liquids. Two other things to consider: PRICE of the product, and TIME to do the job.
The new stuff is rather expensive compared to the price of the old, but wow can you save a lot of time! As for worrying about "cutting" away too much paint....

The paint does not know the difference. If you are trying to remove blemishes that are "X" deep and M105 cuts the paint surrounding the blemish in 10 seconds while M83 takes two applications @ two minutes apiece, then you simply need to polish for less time with the M105. This assumes that you will see a similar end result (in terms of paint condition at the end of your polishing cycle). With M105 and M205 (and other high-end state of the art liquids), this is what is so exciting. The fact that you can ""compound" paint and end up with a "polished" finish in one step seemed laughable even a few years ago (each liquid has its start and finish point). But it can be done, it IS being done, and now, even as a "newbie polishing-guy" YOU can do it, too!

SCoach · 09-30-09, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

You know, I take umbrage to that statement. I think we have a really broad cross-section of members here, and it's NOT "aimed at professional detailers", although it is aimed at getting exemplary results.

I also don't think it's common for members to mistake the context of newb questions of "enthusiast" vs. "beginning pro", although it's common for newbs to be overcome by the depth and nuance of the info here, and some didn't want to get in that deep, but giving a newb more detail than he wants to hear is different than mistaking him for a pro.

I'm not disagreeing with you that this site is not best suited for someone who doesn't want to go "overboard". Your advice to buy sample sizes of polishes is a good one, almost all of us have too many products.

Try to that my understand my comment about context had more to do with a newb coming in and reading dozens of discussions on products and techniques as discussed among pros or serious hobbyists and then trying to apply that; versus someone asking specific information about doing cars at home. I think that members here do a terrific job when asked specifically, but someone trying to just read a bunch of threads might walk away with some information that might not be in their best interest. Case in point. A newb comes here and sees 3 dozen discussions about how the M105/M205 combo is the best thing since sliced bread. They also see that going with 4" pads is "more effective". They combine those two things on something like a Subaru, and burn through the paint in 2 minutes. If they had asked someone for specific advice, that would get discussed.

Like most here I'd wager, I am a member of several sites aimed at detailers both pro and amateur. I tend to see Autopia as slanted more toward pros than any of the others I frequent. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just been my experience. When I want to research how pros tackle a particular car or problem, this is always my first stop. I'd consider myself an advanced hobbyist at this at this point, and I still consult this site before nearly every job I do.

I think the advice given in this particular thread has been pretty much spot on. And I think it's these kinds of threads that are most valuable to either newbies or home users.

SCoach · 09-30-09, 09:25

Kevin makes an great point here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Brown

The paint does not know the difference. If you are trying to remove blemishes that are "X" deep and M105 cuts the paint surrounding the blemish in 10 seconds while M83 takes two applications @ two minutes apiece, then you simply need to polish for less time with the M105.

The rub to this is that the newbie won't KNOW that he only needs to work the M105 for 10 seconds. So he sees the videos on Youtube that show how to work polish, and does it for 2 minutes like he sees, and ooops!

The new stuff out there is amazing. And honestly, you've done as much to revolutionize the methodology as anyone I know. But I'd be hesitant to hand M105 to a newbie without some good advice and maybe some hand-holding...