Used Search & read endless threads..... - Page 4

djs134 · 11-02-09, 09:17

I'm surprised to "hear" that you use the LC Orange with M205. From what I read, I was planning on using the LC White. Seems to be the "go to" pad for 205 in the posts I've read. Would it finish out as well with the Orange? Hmmm.... gonna have to work this out.......

I was planning on M105/Orange, M205/White & M03/Grey

drew.haynes · 11-02-09, 09:35

You are *halfway* on the right track in terms of expectations with 105 and 205. Yes, by non-diminishing, it means that the abrasives are hard and do not break down as you work the polish - the cut remains the same throughout. HOWEVER, the liquids used to lubricate the polish DO still flash/evaporate as you work them. This is where 105 and 205 differ from EACH OTHER dramatically. With 105, the lubricity diminishes RAPIDLY, even if the abrasives themselves are "non-diminishing". You won't be able to just "keep working it". With 205, there is FAR more lubricity and the work time can be quite long if you would like. Meguiars #95 is kind of a middle ground with aggressiveness nearing 105 and lubricity closer to 205. Does that make sense? 105 may be tricky to get comfortable with for a WHILE. 205 - you'll love it first try.

And yes, you can use 205 with orange to get a little more bite - probably a GOOD idea on VW (hard) clear. You could still follow that with a pass of 205/white if you would like - also a decent idea. I wouldn't use an orange pad with MOST light polishes (those with similar aggressiveness to 205), but 205 is so slick it balances out pretty well.

Good luck!

djs134 · 11-02-09, 10:16

Yes, I think I understand what you are saying about M95. And, if I've read it right, M105 is the newer technology of the two and designed to finish out finer. So that makes M95 a bit more like the M83 I was using, but more aggressive like M105.

The next vehicle I plan on attacking is my DD (Black '08 Nissan Altima Coupe). I get the impression that the Nissan CCs are on the softer side. If that is the case, would the LC orange pad still be a good choice with the 205?

You mentioned that the 105 may be tricky to get comfortable with.... my plan is to make around 5 passes or so for each section; letting the product "bite" with firm pressure for a couple passes, ease up to moderate pressure for a pass or two and run a pass with light pressure. Would the comfort level be a matter of working the product quickly enough to finish the section before the lubrication "flashes"?

Accumulator · 11-02-09, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by djs134

I'm surprised to "hear" that you use the LC Orange with M205. From what I read, I was planning on using the LC White. Seems to be the "go to" pad for 205 in the posts I've read. Would it finish out as well with the Orange? Hmmm.... gonna have to work this out.......

I was planning on M105/Orange, M205/White & M03/Grey

M205 is the only product in that cut-range that I use with orange pads, as drew.haynes said, that should be followed with M205 on a milder pad.

Note the Griot's orange pads are *so* different....IMO those are pretty much the perfect M205 pad (at least in their ~6" size).

On a softer clear, I'd probably lean towards the Griot's orane or the new LC tangerine instead of a LC orange (with M205).

If you want to try M205 on a finishing pad I'd recommend the new Meguiar's black pad, which is made just for that.

djs134 · 11-02-09, 10:53

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that the process was more along the lines of M105 and then M205. Two applications and done. Since I already have M80, would I be justified (and rewarded) by a M105/M205/M80 attack?

drew.haynes · 11-02-09, 12:44

I don't think I would follow 205 with 80... PERSONALLY. I don't see much benefit in that, again, personally. If the paint is soft, try orange/205 first. IF the paint is soft enough and IF the paint is not marred too deeply, you MAY be able to use orange/205 as your FIRST step. If that DOES knock out as much marring as you wish to remove, follow it with 205 on white/green/black (whatever cleans everything up well and ups the clarity). Now, this may not be enough, if the Orange/205 is not aggressive enough (marring too deep, paint too hard, etc), then move up to 105, but if by any chance orange/205 IS enough, ohhhhhhh man will it make your life a lot simpler!

To go into more detail about what I was saying in terms of "learning" to use 105... it just flashes fast and easy! If it's really hot out, even more so. Biggest thing, work in SMALL areas! And 105 can gum up your pads a lot also, try to clean them or swap them often.

As far as 95 vs 105 - I have not used 95, but I plan to start playing around with it. 95 is not really older technology... 105/95/205 all use the same non-diminishing technology and all were released about the same time, but for one reason or another, 95 did not get any hype and a lot of people (me included) have never tried it even! I've talked to a lot of people who DO like 95 a lot though, so I plan to try it out. If I get a chance, I'll try to get some varied experience with it and make a write-up of my opinion here on Autopia.

EDIT: Also, as far as 105, 205, two steps, done. Yes and no. Yeah, you could do almost any job with JUST 105 then 205, but if the marring is really terrible that may mean 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+orange, 205+white or some other progression. You have to start aggressive enough to knock out what you are aiming to remove. Every following step needs to be just aggressive enough to clean up the previous, rougher step, while also finishing down finer than the previous step. See what I mean? And then there are people who, shooting for 100% perfection (mostly show cars, non-DD's) will not even stop at 205. You may occasionally see as much as 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+white, Menz PO85RD or Ultrafina + black/blue/red. Getting overwhelmed? Don't worry, based on your first post I can tell you and I are the same type - I too PLUNGE into every new hobby and eventually, you will have more experience than you know what to do with I am sure!

djs134 · 11-02-09, 12:51

Got ya. Can't say I've heard much about M95 at all. Looked at MOL and found some info that related it to M83/M80, but that was about it. Don't have to worry about heat now, it's a bit chilly here in PA about this time of year. And, I do my work in the garage. I'll definitely try the 205/LC Orange combo first. The Passat is 9 years old and never been buffed... had quite the spider webbing when you really looked. The Altima is an '08 and seems pretty well taken care of (only 8200 mi since July 07). I may be able to get away with a lighter touch....

drew.haynes · 11-02-09, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by djs134

Got ya. Can't say I've heard much about M95 at all. Looked at MOL and found some info that related it to M83/M80, but that was about it. Don't have to worry about heat now, it's a bit chilly here in PA about this time of year. And, I do my work in the garage. I'll definitely try the 205/LC Orange combo first. The Passat is 9 years old and never been buffed... had quite the spider webbing when you really looked. The Altima is an '08 and seems pretty well taken care of (only 8200 mi since July 07). I may be able to get away with a lighter touch....

True, not to mention, VW clear is HARD HARD HARD!

Accumulator · 11-03-09, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew.haynes

I don't think I would follow 205 with 80... PERSONALLY....

Same here, the M205 leaves a slightly higher gloss IME than M80, so it's kinda a step backwards.

I've discussed the M205 vs. M80 with Mike Phillips without really ever getting a rock-solid understanding of why to choose one over the other

I think I'd just lean towards M205 unless there's a *specific* reason, of which you're quite certain, why M80 would be a better choice.

Why use M80 instead?- Maybe you want better "wetting" of dried out single stage, or better action on oxidation (that's kinda a guess), or it's fresh paint and you want the "fresh paint safe polymers" that M80 leaves behind, or it's a situation where you don't want to deal with the M205 residual-oils issue. Or maybe the "sharp" abrasives in the M205 just don't work well on the paint/surface in question. But I'd have a *reason* in mind, otherwise I'd use M205.

djs134 · 11-03-09, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew.haynes

.....EDIT: Also, as far as 105, 205, two steps, done. Yes and no. Yeah, you could do almost any job with JUST 105 then 205, but if the marring is really terrible that may mean 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+orange, 205+white or some other progression. You have to start aggressive enough to knock out what you are aiming to remove. Every following step needs to be just aggressive enough to clean up the previous, rougher step, while also finishing down finer than the previous step. See what I mean? And then there are people who, shooting for 100% perfection (mostly show cars, non-DD's) will not even stop at 205. You may occasionally see as much as 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+white, Menz PO85RD or Ultrafina + black/blue/red. Getting overwhelmed? Don't worry, based on your first post I can tell you and I are the same type - I too PLUNGE into every new hobby and eventually, you will have more experience than you know what to do with I am sure!

I can relate! I have to keep reminding myself that I'm only dealing with my immediate DDs and not show cars.....

I understand what you are saying about the "aggressive to remove defects and then work my way out of the correction" process. Luckily I don't think that I have a major problem in front of me and shouldn't have to go too deep into the CC to fix what's there. But adjusting out of the correction by product/pad combinations makes perfect sense.

Oh, and btw, I'm having problems locating a direct description of the KBM. Lots of discussions of the nuances and pros/cons as well as talk about the "oils" left by 205, but no direct KBM outline. Help? I'll keep searching. I have a general idea, but would like to be sure.

Thanks again for ALL of the help! Saving me a lot of time and headaches.... costing me $$... but saving me lots of time and headaches....lol....

EDIT: Finally found the info I was looking for about the KBM from Kevin himself on another forum. After reading his description and comments, I think I'll heed his advice and utilize the "traditional" method for a while longer. Nothing attracts disaster like too many variables........

Accumulator · 11-04-09, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by djs134

..I think I'll heed his advice and utilize the "traditional" method for a while longer. Nothing attracts disaster like too many variables........

Just be sure to prime the pads properly.

And remember that the M105/M205 don't break down, they just dry out. Mostly that only matters with the M105- the residue you buff off is *still* abrasive cutting compound, so be gentle; clumps of dried product on your pad can cause *serious* issues, so don't let them develop (keep cleaning the pad).

You might find that what seems to be intuitively obvious isn't all that different from the KBM anyhow

djs134 · 11-04-09, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Just be sure to prime the pads properly.

And remember that the M105/M205 don't break down, they just dry out. Mostly that only matters with the M105- the residue you buff off is *still* abrasive cutting compound, so be gentle; clumps of dried product on your pad can cause *serious* issues, so don't let them develop (keep cleaning the pad).

Good heads up. Thanks. That actually seems to be good practice regardless weather you are "bearing down" on the pad or not, if only to make sure that the product is evenly distributed over the pad area.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

You might find that what seems to be intuitively obvious isn't all that different from the KBM anyhow

True enough. Found myself applying pressure trying to take out a few RIDS with the M83.