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Old 08-15-09, 12:59   #1 (permalink)
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PC newbie: Information Overload

Alright guys,

I've been reading these forums for a while now and just tried my hand at polishing with a PC. I'm rather confused now and I don't know where to begin. First off, the car: 2007 Alpine White BMW 335i. Is this a hard paint? Reading the forums I see that it varies and all I see is that black is soft I have yet to read anything about the white.

So initially I started off with some stuff my friend lent me (his PC, pads and DACP). Unsure of the pad brand, def not LC, yellow is a light cut and orange is a step higher in cut. I wanna say they're 4" pads too.

I tried DACP + yellow light cutting pad on the car (although in hindsight) i'm fairly sure I didn't give the polish enough time to work in. Applied @ 3, then a quick run over on 5 then I wiped it off. Not nearly enough time, so obviously this was a failed attempt. I ended up doing this outside on a cloudy day and wound up with a bunch of caked on dust

Since I ran out of the DACP my friend gave me I ordered some M80. So this time I used the orange cutting pad (again sorry dont know brand) + M80. This time around I made sure to work on a 1.5' x 1.5' area. Inside the garage, I would work in the polish at 3 then go over it nice and slow @ 5. Overall probably about 3-4 minutes spent breaking it down. From what I could tell after about 4 passes in the same area, the minor swirls were gone but there was still plenty (by plenty I mean a lot) of deeper cuts in the paint. Potentially RIDs?

So my question is: When do you know you have to go to more rocks in a bottle? Is 4 passes enough? Is that when I should say forget this, and get maybe some Menzerna PG or SIP? Do I go back and get some M105 instead? Is alpine white a hard CC'd color? I'm so confused!

Thanks all!

[edit]One more thing how do you guys go about polishing a white car? I have a ton of trouble seeing the haze where there is and isnt polish! I think when I try again, I'll just blue tape the car into sections. is that how you guys handle awhite car? [/edit]

Ants

Last edited by Ants : 08-15-09 at 01:20.
 
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Old 08-15-09, 01:33   #2 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Yellow is usually a higher cut than orange.

I'd get a set of good LC pads and a set of polishes you can use predictably.

The general rule is if you can feel a scratch with your fingernail, it is going to stay there, and your goal is to minimize the visibility.
 
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Old 08-15-09, 01:51   #3 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Its not a scratch you can feel. I actually cant see the scratch under day light. When I drive into one of those yellow tungsten powered parking lots the swirls show up in full force!
 
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Old 08-15-09, 02:26   #4 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Ants- I fully understand the info overload. I'll try to sort things out a little. Long-winded reply follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantic euro
I'd get a set of good LC pads and a set of polishes you can use predictably.
That's great advice! Limit the variables and if something is confusing (e.g., which pad has what level of cut) that's more likely to impede progress than facilitate it.

At this point I wouldn't worry about whether your paint is "soft" or "hard". Those scare-quotes are intentional because it's *hard relative to what you tried to correct it with*.

Side note regarding #83/DACP- it needs to be worked quite a while not only so it can do the correction but also so it can break down and not leave micromarring.

This is a big part of why I'm not a fan of #83 and why I believe the M105/M205 twins are good not just for experienced detailers, but also for newbies- NO "is it broken down yet" issues with these non-diminishing abrasive products.

You made some progress, right? But you want more. OK...

The four tries with #80 isn't all that aggressive. #80 is a pretty mild product and I bet you need something with a bit more cut. Might've taken forever, but it didn't take off much clear (for better and/or for worse) and that's what counts.

You were doing the *right* thing by working a relatively small area And if taping off smallish sections works for you, then do it. I sometimes do that exact thing myself.

I do recommend you get some M105. It's the aggressive product I'd recommend and I would use it to get the more serious marring/RIDS improved. M105 is pretty user-friendly in the sense of having a nice shallow learning curve; you'll probably be comfortable with it after just a little while. Do *NOT* use the "spread at 3, then speed up" with this product. Just prime the pad properly (as per Kevin Brown ), set it on the paint, and go at speed 5 (or higher if you're using pads larger than 4"). Work it until the scratches are gone or the product starts to dry out, it doesn't break down, it just dries out so don't over-work it to that point.

I dunno how far you should go; the "nothing but perfection" approach that's so prevalent here can get people into trouble and IMO you oughta shoot for "much better but not perfect" instead. M105 will get you there a whole lot faster than #83, let alone #80.

Once the M105 gets things more to your liking you can finish up with the #80, though I do also recommend M205 and IME it leaves a nicer finish than the #80.

Working on white does present some unique challenges. You'll just have to experiment with lighting until you find what works for you. Much as I knock fluorescent lights for correction, sometimes they work well for white paint. A lot of this is, unfortunately, a matter of experience; you actually do have to "learn how to look at" the paint in question, both while doing the correction and when doing inspection. Sorry, I know that's not too encouraging but there's no magic answer to this. After a while, you'll learn to see the white product on top of the white paint and it'll be one of those "aha!" epiphanies.
 
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Old 08-15-09, 02:37   #5 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Sticking with Meguiars isnt a bad thing. When I ordered the M80 I realized I should have just ordered the 105/205 combo. I was just hoping M80 had enough cut to do what I needed it to.

I'll look into the Kevin Brown method now I've been hearing that thrown around quite a bit and I think that will definitely help me!

So the kevin brown method you basically put it all over the pad evenly, then go to town? B/c 105 is non diminishing, do I just stop every couple minutes, wipe off, then check progress? I'm assuming after a while, the pad will need to be reprimed, rinse and repeat?

Thanks Accumulator!
 
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Old 08-15-09, 04:20   #6 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ants View Post
Sticking with Meguiars isnt a bad thing. When I ordered the M80 I realized I should have just ordered the 105/205 combo. I was just hoping M80 had enough cut to do what I needed it to.

I'll look into the Kevin Brown method now I've been hearing that thrown around quite a bit and I think that will definitely help me!

So the kevin brown method you basically put it all over the pad evenly, then go to town? B/c 105 is non diminishing, do I just stop every couple minutes, wipe off, then check progress? I'm assuming after a while, the pad will need to be reprimed, rinse and repeat?

Thanks Accumulator!
In my kits, you get multiple pads so that you don't have to clean/spur the pads while you're in the middle of the detail. Three orange pads (good for medium and fine cut) and two yellow (aggressive) are enough to do the whole car.

I tend to look for natural dividing areas when I am polishing - I do the hood of my M635 in six areas since I have a ridge down the middle that gives me three sections and I work each a half at a time.

For me, the best idea is to start gentle and work to the level of aggressiveness you need. Starting aggressive can lead to...over-correction...
 
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Old 08-16-09, 08:42   #7 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Quote:
I tend to look for natural dividing areas when I am polishing - I do the hood of my M635 in six areas since I have a ridge down the middle that gives me three sections and I work each a half at a time.
Can ya post a pic?! (I may pick up an 88 mid month)
 
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Old 08-16-09, 09:17   #8 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ants View Post
.. I was just hoping M80 had enough cut to do what I needed it to.
IMO people often overestimate how well products like that will work.
Quote:
I'll look into the Kevin Brown method now I've been hearing that thrown around quite a bit and I think that will definitely help me!
There was a recent post by Kevin Brown that summarized the method quite well. I'd try to find it.

Quote:
So the kevin brown method you basically put it all over the pad evenly, then go to town?
It's not quite that simple so I'd search for Kevin's explanation.

Priming the pad is very imprtant with *any* method and IMO most people don't do it properly. You want to load the pad evenly and thoroughly, without *over* loading it. You should be able to see the pores in the pad, and they should be filled *to the right degree* with product. This last part is hard to explain but we very clear in Kevin's pics of a black LC pad primed with M205 (try to find that thread too).

Quote:
B/c 105 is non diminishing, do I just stop every couple minutes, wipe off, then check progress?

Yeah, but it won't take *minutes*. These products work a *lot* faster than stuff like #80. Try 6-8 passes (each pass being one full trip across the area being worked) over a limited area and then inpsect. Inspect the pad for dried polish/cut-off clear frequently and clean/replace the pad as needed.

I like to mist some #34 on the panels before wiping off the M105 to minimize micromarring (from the not-broken-down abrasives).

Quote:
I'm assuming after a while, the pad will need to be reprimed, rinse and repeat?
I clean mine with #34 and blow them off with compressed air. Without the air compressor I'd squeeze/blot them out very thoroughly with a towel, a method that worked pretty OK for me before I started using the air. Then reprime. Be sure you don't start rushing through the priming as the job progresses
 
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Old 08-16-09, 07:31   #9 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic Euro View Post
my M635.
!!!!!

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Portland, OR
 
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Old 08-16-09, 07:41   #10 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

If he cannot get a bottle of 105 easily, isnt the ultimate compound in the same cut range but made for DA or hand use?
 
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Old 08-17-09, 09:23   #11 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM View Post
If he cannot get a bottle of 105 easily, isnt the ultimate compound in the same cut range but made for DA or hand use?
As I understand it, the UC actually has quite a bit less cut in actual use (chart ratings notwithstanding). Probably the next best choice though, so yeah, keep it on your short list.
 
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Old 09-09-09, 09:08   #12 (permalink)
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Re: PC newbie: Information Overload

Just a small update: I tried to do the KBM but apparently I screwed up. I guess I loaded up the pad too much and when i started it off at 6...i had product flung all over the garage LOL. Taking a look at the pics again, I guess I put way too much product.

I also had the pad disintegrate on me, so I need to dig up that thread that happened to someone else and figure out what was going on. Basically it started tearing all around the part that attaches to the velcro.

BTW, I tested on a 91 miata.. results look good on the single stage paint, however its hard to tell whether the product was dried out or not.
 
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