Burning Paint with PC 7424

[GoudyL]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Huh? Right, they don't conduct heat the same as metal panels, but that just means that you do them a little differently.

I've *NEVER* had a problem machine polishing plastic panels, let alone fiberglass. Never. Not on factory paint (freshly built or not), not on repaints (freshly done or not). Not with a rotary, a Cyclo, or a PC. Via PC/Cyclo it's easy; just a matter of feeling the panel after every few seconds of polishing until you learn how it goes (which is how you learn to do it by rotary too).

Paint can have defects. These can cause problems. And, well..[stuff] happens. But to never machine polish plastic panels...

Acc, you are experienced, the OP is a newbie. The OP managed to wreck the paint on his bumper using a machine polisher.

Just looking at it, you can see that this was heat mediated damage, vs abrasive damage. The heat from the polishing softened the paint film, and the mechanical action tore it away from the bumper substrate.

That you (and other experienced folks) on autopia would not (would be much less likely) do such a thing is not very relevent. The OP put himself in a situation where serious damage was possible, and the smarter course of action is to say to folks w/o serious experience is that they should not machine polish plastic panels. It will save them grief.

More generally, why is the OP machine polishing a brand new car, in the first place? What benefit can accrue from this?

If you are experienced enough to be able to argue with my points, then my advice probably doesn't apply to you.

[craigdt]

Originally Posted by GoudyL

More generally, why is the OP machine polishing a brand new car, in the first place? What benefit can accrue from this?

Many brand new cars come with marring and swirls.

Apparently, he was using a finishing pad with 85RD. Indeed, thats what a lot of guys use for jeweling.

That is hardly abrasive at all, removing almost no clearcoat, esp. with a PC.

Maybe he should have used Turtle Wax Ice Polish.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by GoudyL

More generally, why is the OP machine polishing a brand new car, in the first place? What benefit can accrue from this?

Most new cars come with the Dealer-Installed Swirl Option (DISO), so many of us have had to radically polish new cars.

Edit: Oops...Craig beat me to it on this one.

[efnfast]

Originally Posted by Scottwax

On that bumper, it simply looks like a combination of pressure and heat build up tore up the paint. It is possible there is a paint problem too, but even so, it probably wouldn't have been an issue if it hadn't been buffed hard.

You really think poor lil' cyclo can generate enough heat and pressure to go through clear, through paint, and right into the primer, in under 10 seconds, with the pads moving over the area (i.e., not fixed in 1 spot) on remotely healthy paint?

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by efnfast

You really think poor lil' cyclo can generate enough heat and pressure to go through clear, through paint, and right into the primer, in under 10 seconds, with the pads moving over the area (i.e., not fixed in 1 spot) on remotely healthy paint?

IMO, not a chance. There was definitely some sort of flaw in your case. In the OP's case, however, there wasn't a flaw; that plastic melted right at it's designed melting point.

[Accumulator]

GoudyL- I kinda figured you'd reply with something about my experience and we can just agree to disagree (without being disagreeable ).

I figure I *got* experienced by doing such stuff (gotta be a first time, or first hundred..), and I've trained enough newbies (including my then-elderly father) to genuinely believe that anybody can do this sort of thing without problems if they have the requisite mindset and knowledge base. That might be the kicker though...people (the kind of people I seldom associate with) often astound me with the things they do.

But *with* the right mindset/knowledge base people can do stuff like this via machine that they simply cannot do otherwise.

Eh..I'm possibly just used to people who are comfortable with irrevocable decisions, you know...used to the "I simply *cannot* make any mistakes here" mindset.

Heh heh...I often feel like I'm arguing different sides of the same argument with you and bufferbarry; I'm always telling you that people should get more aggressive than you'd like, and OTOH I'm always telling *him* that the cc thinning he does scares the pants off of me!

Between the advice of guys like you, guys like me, and guys like bufferbarry, people here can sure get a wide range of opinions; hopefully they'll pick the choices that are right for *them*.

Oh, and I too have had to correct *every single* new vehicle I've ever bought (that's quite a few!), unless I took the transit-wrap off myself. Every one of 'em had some dealer (or shipper)- instilled marring. When I was a kid doing new-car prep at the local dealership, they even came off the truck with flaws that were simply awful.

[efnfast]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

IMO, not a chance. There was definitely some sort of flaw in your case. In the OP's case, however, there wasn't a flaw; that plastic melted right at it's designed melting point.

I'd definately believe that, but I'd also like to believe people still have enough common sense to identify why something happened - the only way that much (melt) is probably going to happen is if he was really hammering that spot (too much pressure, not enough travel, etc...), which id sure doesn't sound like based on the pad/product combo.......in which case I'd expect him to have enough sense to realize it was his own fault.

Kind of like how if somebody changed their oil, was draining it, then mid-way through went into the house for a few hours, came back, forgot they hadn't filled it up, then drove their car and seized it. I would expect them to (if they were silly enough to look for more attention, lol) post online about how they f'd up their oil change due to forgetfullness, not should they fill up their engine with oil and have it towed back to the dealership and blame them.

But maybe i expect too much =)

Originally Posted by Accumulator

GoudyL- I kinda figured you'd reply with something about my experience and we can just agree to disagree (without being disagreeable ).

Don't forget you're arguing with the guy who spent PAGES trying to convince everybody that you don't need any form of agitation to clean a vehicle, as a car wash sprayer will remove 110% of all dirt (heh)

[GoudyL]

Originally Posted by craigdt

Many brand new cars come with marring and swirls.

Apparently, he was using a finishing pad with 85RD. Indeed, thats what a lot of guys use for jeweling.

That is hardly abrasive at all, removing almost no clearcoat, esp. with a PC.

Well he certainly managed to remove a good chunk of clearcoat, basecoat, and primer with that combination.

Maybe he should have used Turtle Wax Ice Polish.

Let me put it this way, if he had used Turtle Wax Ice Liquid, his car would now be the subject of an appreciative click and brag thread, rather than being the subject of a thread entitled "Burning Paint with PC 7424".

That said, on such a new car, I would not apply anything (even TW Ice) to the paint untill its had time to finish curing.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by GoudyL

That said, on such a new car, I would not apply anything (even TW Ice) to the paint untill its had time to finish curing.

Here we go again..it was cured before it left the factory.

[David Fermani]

Goudy - Do you have any evidence that new OEM paint takes 90 days to fully cure? Even if it wasn't cured, polishing, compounding and/or sanding is perfectly fine when done by a Professional.

Food for thought from a reputable source in the industry: Both the 1K and 2K systems are 90-95% cured upon cool down, after the bake process, in the factory spray booth. The additional 5-10% will cure within 3-7 days. This means that by the time any vehicle reaches its destination at a dealer, the paint is fully cured.

Like others mentioned, inexperience caused this misfortune, NOT the product/process. Turtle Wax Ice Liquid won't hold a candle to a perfectly polished new car finish (when quality products are utilized). And if he did do a Click N Brag with it TWI, he'd most likely get a very low amount of responses because there's not too much to brag about when using that product.

[GoudyL]

Originally Posted by David Fermani

Goudy - Do you have any evidence that new OEM paint takes 90 days to fully cure? Even if it wasn't cured, polishing, compounding and/or sanding is perfectly fine when done by a Professional.

In this case was it done by a professional? Or just by someone using professional tools.

Like others mentioned, inexperience caused this misfortune, NOT the product/process.

No, that's a load of rationalization. Without the PC 7424, he could not have melted the paint like that, no matter what his level of experience.

IMHO we have alot of folks who are quite nervous, that this could happen to them, perhaps when they least expecting it.

Turtle Wax Ice Liquid won't hold a candle to a perfectly polished new car finish (when quality products are utilized).

It will look a heck of lot better than melted paint.

And if he did do a Click N Brag with it TWI, he'd most likely get a very low amount of responses because there's not too much to brag about when using that product.

Dave, you continue to impress me with your lack of good manners.

[David Fermani]

Great answer Goudy! It's just like watching Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man as your Savant Syndrome comes out...You should definately look into branding a line of detailing products at your day job for people on the autistic spectrum.....oh, sorry, you already have, it's called Turtle Wax Ice.