Wool, what am I missing?

[mose]

So can wool pads be used with something other than a rotary (i.e. FLEX)?

[SuperBee364]

You're right, Charlesferg.

I was refering to the "least abrassive" as the one that I had used in reference to another post he was asking about. PO85RD was the least abrassive of the ones I had used in that post... not the least abrassive that Menz makes.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by mose

So can wool pads be used with something other than a rotary (i.e. FLEX)?

I've heard that some people have used the purple foamed wool pads successfully on good strong DA's like the Flex, but I haven't ever tried it.

Hopefully, someone that has will chime in...

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by TTWAGN

A finishing wool pad is pretty damn awesome for most paints. However you reach a point where wool cant get any softer and it can still marr soft black paint. Thats where foam can be good for final finishing.

I think its important to note that for the most part we are buffing on clear coat. I know this is kind of basic, but think about this...

Most manufacturer's use the same clear coat over different base coats, so the only difference in color is in the base coat. The clear coat remains the same. (Of course their are obvious exceptions, BMW's harder clear on Sapphire Black and the stupidly soft clear on Jet Black).

This makes brings me to my point... Since a black base coat reflects the most light thru the clear coat, you can see maximum defect levels. Black most accurately shows the condition of the clear coat above it. So if foam is needed to finish out the clear coat to perfection on a black car, then it is really needed on every car to achieve perfection.

Obviously the benefits of finishing out a black car more completely are much more dramatic then finishing out the same clear coat over a silver car. In the black car you might see a 10% improvement, where as on a silver car you may be lucky to see 2%, for the same time invested.

In my experience with wool, you can never get a car 100 percent perfect with it because the fibers will instill light marring in the paint surface (or more light marring then a foam pad, because under a high enough magnification, nothing is perfect). Since this type of marring can be seen to diffuse the paint on black, then it is also diffusing the light on other color's as well. To get the highest gloss we must level the paint as flat as possible to get maximum light reflection. This law is true for all colors, regardless wether we see the defects or not.

So the achieve true maximum gloss on silver, we have to polish out defects that we cannot even see.

[D&D Auto Detail]

Originally Posted by TH0001

This makes brings me to my point... Since a black base coat reflects the most light thru the clear coat, you can see maximum defect levels. Black most accurately shows the condition of the clear coat above it. So if foam is needed to finish out the clear coat to perfection on a black car, then it is really needed on every car to achieve perfection.

Awesome point Todd. I have had this conversation with a few other people and I dont think they really got the idea. Great explanation. The finishing process should be similar even on light colored cars.

[WASHWAY]

Originally Posted by The Edge

In 1994 when we launched the Edge system, there were only two choices of foam basically. Yellow for cutting and Grey for polishing. We could not figure out why you would want to use the most abrasive pad for every job so we invented and launched a 5 colored texture foam line which was soon copied by all our competitors. When we decided to enter the wool pad business we saw the same dilema that the only pads offered were White 100% wool twisted for cutting and a Yellow Blended wool/acrylic for polishing. We then launched the first wool pad line to offer 5 colored textures and our wool matched our foam in color and texture. You want and need the ability to choose the right pad for the job without being forced to use the most abrasive pad. You actually want to start with the least abrasive combination of pad and chemical to see if you get the right results first before reaching for the more abrasive combo and removing more paint or causing damage.

Hope this little history helps.

Aaron

This is not an entirely true portrait of history. This maybe based off your experiences at the time. Several other companies had many, many more pads in wool and foam then what you stated. Buff and Shine, Lake Country, Schlegel, and 3M just to name a few. In foam, Buff and Shine and Lake Country had a variety of PPI (Pores Per Inch)options and colors available. In wool compounding you had 100% wool pads in 4ply twist to 1ply twist. For light compounding and heavy polishing there were wool blends from 4ply twist to a standard wool pads. Finishing pads were from wool blends to 100% wool and even sheep skin pads that had the hide visible on the backside. All these pads were also avaible in a variety of colors. The original purpose for having different colors in wool was so that in detail shops they could differentiate which pads, had which products on the pads.
I do agree not every paint is the same. Every car has been exposed to different environments and that should always be takin into consideration. There is always an extreme case or special circumstance, from cars with horrible paint to the garage kept show car that has never had anything other than a hand polish and waxing. For the "average" or "newer" car a compounding pad is not needed, since you are only polishing the clear coat and never make it to the actual paint. In that circumstance you would clay the car first then move to a pad like the Buff and Shine 7503GY (polishing pad) or 7510G (Finishing pad) depending on the condition of the clear after claying. Use these with a mild cleaner/polish. As with any pad keep the pad flat, lower rpms, and do not burn the pain with too much heat.
For those that have never used a Buff and Shine pad, I highly recommend it. They make their pads for the professional detail market and car wash market. 70-80% of their pads are private labeled and sold under other names. I can't say enough for their products.

Danny

[TortoiseAWD]

WASHWAY,

Please review our policies on commercial posting. Since you're a retailer of Buff-and-Shine pads, your post borders on our definition of spam.

Thanks,
Tort
(moderator)

[Bigpikle]

Originally Posted by TH0001

Since a black base coat reflects the most light thru the clear coat, you can see maximum defect levels. Black most accurately shows the condition of the clear coat above it. So if foam is needed to finish out the clear coat to perfection on a black car, then it is really needed on every car to achieve perfection.

great point Todd... I just spent 6 hours polishing my silver Saab, and am now kinda wishing I did another go around with a final finish polish as well, to get the imperfections I couldnt see :

Oh well, next time

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Bigpikle

great point Todd... I just spent 6 hours polishing my silver Saab, and am now kinda wishing I did another go around with a final finish polish as well, to get the imperfections I couldnt see :

Oh well, next time

Thanks.... and sorry

[Mindflux]

I ended up ordering 6" Wool in Yellow/Green/Blue/White (Ultrafine) from Edge.

I was eyeing the Optimum line of products for polishing but found a few threads that pooh-poohed that with Wool.

Maybe my local PB&E jobber has some Presta 1500 and UCC.

[Picus]

Sometimes I find Todd and I disagree about certain products and processes, but on this point I agree with him 100%. I always finish with foam.

In fact, I almost always cut with foam too. I guess I am one of the weird holdouts. I will cut with wool (aggressively), but in most cases I find foam has a better cut:finish ratio for me.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by TH0001

..So the achieve true maximum gloss on silver, we have to polish out defects that we cannot even see...

Oh so true

People think that's crazy talk, but two identical-paint "perfect" silver cars can look completely different. I've learned that "just one more light burnishing" is seldom a waste of time, no matter how unnecessary it might seem.