BMW paint ... scratches under clear? or do i need a better machine?

[Antoniooo]

I'm working on an Alpine White 2000 BMW .. and boy when i stripped her down did i see just how bad it really was.. :S I only have a PC(XP) to work with.. so I opted for Megs UC and a LC Orange pad (5.5in) first.. a few passes and nothing.. a few more still nothing... what the hell is going on? Upon inspection it looks pretty damn clear under halogens but i still see alot of scratches, Some of which are into the color but I can tell these from the rest.. These marks are almost all in a pattern that looks like some kind of wide diamond shape in a lot of spots.. alot of connected straight lines or just 3-4 straight lines all lined up one on top of the other.. wth is this??

I went out and picked up some M105.. still nothing.. is this even possible??? Do I need a rotary and or wool for this?? I dont have any pictures right now .. been working on this for the last 2 days.. Ill try to get a pic tomorrow

I also noticed with the UC and 105.. it did not leave any kind of hazing or dullness to the finish.. in fact it looked great (minus those crazy scratches) is this a trick because its white?? I went over most of it again with menz super finish and i got barely no improvement.. hmmm.

[Dan]

What's the history on the car? Also UC and 105 look amazing until you remove the oils left behind with several IPA wipes or a dawn bath.

[Brad B.]

I've seen similar things many times before which were scratches left over from improper body work filing/sanding repair. It was then clearcoated over. There is no fix for this other than stripping and repainting.

Could this be the case here?

[Antoniooo]

heh i guess menz top inspection is no good at removing oils?.. smells familiar though lol .. heh the history is definitely questionable.. im pretty sure there have been a few repainted parts.. but i dont know about the actual body..
for sure the front bumper (at least a part) .. i found tape and definite tape lines around the reflectors.. and the part closest to the actual body has orange peel like a mofo.. like they repainted with the bumper on and they didnt bother trying to get enough in that spot.. the back bumper has the same orange peel/almost no paint look in that spot going on but overall looks not too bad.. (except for that) 105 made it look a little better.. the front left fender looks like it is bent out some at the tip.. and some of the inside looks like they stopped spraying at that point.. definite orange peel if you look at it under the lights. the driver door.. had/has a different shade of color to it.. which i never noticed until lately.. like the rest of the car is actually bright white.. and the door looks off-white? .. creme or something.. its weird.. actually i think the door and the fender might be that shade.. its hard to tell but you can definitely tell a difference between that door and the quarter panel/bumper.

i was starting to think that it was scratches under the clear like sanding or something.. no matter how many times i tried to hit it.. i got no where.. i have good clarity and reflectivity.. just those damn marks.. and they are ALL OVER the WHOLE car..??? i mean i dont have much experience but i was let down by this.. i went into it thinking it was gonna come back at least 70% better but i feel like im lucky to even have 40% right now....

i know something is up.. i recently worked on a galant (99) burgundy looking with flakes .. with just Menz SIP and super finish and i came back at least 75% all i had was some random scratches i couldnt get. this bmw is hell..

i was so inspired by some of the work i see here that i felt like quitting on it because of this.. felt like i spent 2 days for nothing. :/ i mean i know i dont have as much experience and the best equipment as most.. but i just feel that something about this paint is off...

[Ron Ketcham]

Sounds, from your descriptions, that it has had several trips to "refinishing'.
It also sounds like the the painter used some different solvents for reducers and what MAY have happened is that over time, the base coat "shrunk" into the surface primers, which would explain what you are seeing.
Grumpy

[Accumulator]

I've seen similar things many times before which were scratches left over...

This is happening more often than before in my area, presumably due to the new water-based primer-surfacers...or so claim the painters whom I know that are hearing about this issue with their work [uhm....consider that last part when interpreting ]

There is no fix for this other than stripping and repainting.

That's what I'd always thought, but in the most recent case (Accumulatorette's A8) the problem was *apparently* remedied via abrading it (wetsanding/compounding/polishing). I say "apparently" for all the Autopian reasons, but it does look OK now. No, I was *NOT* expecting it to turn out OK, not at all.

And no, this isn't nearly as good a solution as redoing the panel, but that's what the shop's new owner (oh gee, just get me going on this... ) was willing to OK and I wasn't gonna spend *my* $ before seeing how it worked out. Again, it seems fine now. Or should I say "for now"


Yes, this means the clear isn't as thick there and that the prep issues are "still there". Yeah, yeah...I know, I know, and if it develops an "I can't live with it" issue the shop and I will be revisiting the whole thing. Never had this BS with the old owner...we'll see if I can keep doing business with 'em.

[tom p.]

I've seen similar things many times before which were scratches left over from improper body work filing/sanding repair.

I had this same condition on the hood of one of my cars. As Brad sez, not much to do with it apart from complete re-finishing

[Thomas Dekany]

Please post a picture of the defect?

Otherwise, that white BMW paint is one of the hardest paints you will ever come across
No way will 105 and an orange pad tackle that. Even with a rotary. Now this maybe besides the point though. But you should know.

Whether you do this for a living or not, the very first thing to learn is that every paint is different from each other. even within the same make. Let alone a different brand. This is where experience comes in. You just had one!

[Ron Ketcham]

Thomas, sorry but, it's not the BMW white paint, it's the clearcoat that may be hard and in this case just read through and see that a lot of refinish work has been done, and according to his post, not all by the same shop or painter.
As all of the experienced pro's on this site have said, time and time again, got to use an electronic paint thickness gauge to gain basic knowledge of the concern, what one is actually dealing with.
He's got "color variations", he's got areas that indicate refinish, on and on.
This car would appear to be one of those "living nightmares" of a vehicle that is more than 5 or so years old.
Time for anyone to learn "diagnositic" skills, saves a bunch of time and effort.
Grumpy

[Thomas Dekany]

Sorry Ron - I just read his initial post reather quickly as I didn't have much time/ I apologize.

Thomas, sorry but, it's not the BMW white paint, it's the clearcoat that may be hard and in this case just read through and see that a lot of refinish work has been done, and according to his post, not all by the same shop or painter.
As all of the experienced pro's on this site have said, time and time again, got to use an electronic paint thickness gauge to gain basic knowledge of the concern, what one is actually dealing with.
He's got "color variations", he's got areas that indicate refinish, on and on.
This car would appear to be one of those "living nightmares" of a vehicle that is more than 5 or so years old.
Time for anyone to learn "diagnositic" skills, saves a bunch of time and effort.
Grumpy