Do you Drink?

[kingDavid76]

A Preview of Wine in the Bible

Jesus and Wine. The next logical step was to examine the major wine-related stories or sayings of Jesus since these are commonly used to prove that Christ made, commended, used and even commanded the use of alcoholic wine. In Chapter 5 I went into considerable detail to examine these claims. The conclusion of my analysis is that they are devoid of textual, contextual and historical support.

The "good wine" Jesus made at Cana (John 2:10) was "good" not because of its high alcoholic content, but because it was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is indicated by external and internal considerations. Externally, contemporary authors, such as Pliny and Plutarch, attest that "good wines" were those which did not intoxicate, having had their alcoholic potency removed. Internally, moral consistency demands that Christ could not have miraculously produced between 120 to 160 gallons of intoxicating wine for the use of men, women and children gathered at the Cana’s wedding feast, without becoming morally responsible for prolonging and increasing their intoxication. Scriptural and moral consistency requires that "the good wine" produced by Christ was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is supported by the very adjective used to describe it, namely kalos, which denotes that which is morally excellent, instead of agathos, which means simply good.

The "new wine" Jesus commended through the parable of the new wineskins (Luke 5:37-38; Mark 2:22) was unfermented must, either boiled or filtered, because not even new wineskins could withstand the pressure of the gas produced by fermenting new wine.

The self-description of Jesus as "eating and drinking" (Matt 11:19; Luke 7:34) does not imply that He used alcoholic wine, but rather that He freely associated with people at their meals and elsewhere. The phrase "eating and drinking" was used idiomatically to describe Christ’s social lifestyle.

The "fruit of the vine" Christ commanded to be used as a memorial of His redeeming blood (Matt 26:28-29; Mark 14:24-25) was not fermented wine, which in the Scripture represents human depravity and divine indignation, but pure unfermented grape juice, which is a fitting emblem of Christ’s untainted blood shed for the remission of our sins. This conclusion was established through a study of the language of the Last Supper, the Jewish Passover wine, the Passover law of fermentation, the consistency of the symbol and the survival of the use of unfermented grape juice at the Lord’s Supper. Most telling is the fact that Josephus calls the freshly squeezed grape juice "the fruit of the vine." This establishes unequivocally that the phrase was used to designate the sweet, unfermented juice of the grape. The evidences submitted shows that Jesus abstained from all intoxicating substances and gave no sanction to His followers for using them



Alcohol in America. To help the reader appreciate from a social and medical perspective why the Bible condemns the use of alcoholic beverages, I have devoted Chapter 9 to a brief survey of the social and medical consequences of alcohol consumption in American society. The survey indicates that the cost of alcohol use to the American people is appallingly high, not only in economic terms ($117 billion per year), but also in terms of human pain, misery, violence, child and spouse abuse, divorces, crime, sickness and death. It is inconceivable to think that at least 100,000 human lives are lost every year in America alone because of alcohol-related problems.

If America wants to deal effectively with the tragedy of alcohol, it must develop an entirely new cultural attitude through the aggressive promotion of abstinence. Christians can play a vital role in this endeavor, if they recover the Biblical imperative for abstinence. It is only when Christians recognize and accept the fact that drinking alcoholic beverages is not only physically harmful, but also Biblically and morally wrong, that they are likely to feel compelled, not only to abstain from intoxicating substances themselves, but also to help others do likewise.


Trying to help others.

[weekendwarrior]

I think the OP was simply trying to guage how many people do/don't drink (for whatever reason). I don't think he wanted social or Biblical arguments for or against using alcohol.

[BigJimZ28]

the religion B.S. is getting old

[8Banger]

lol, weekendwarrior is right - theres no need to argue about biblical history of alcohol

I was just wondering who does and does not drink any why, maybe start a (healthy) debate about it (nothing heated).

I don't see any pluses to alcohol. All that you drink it for is just so you can have a "good time" for the time that you're drunk. IMO, theres far too many downsides to a "good time" for 5-6 hours.

+: temporary fix, good time

-: money, health, risk of injury/death to you and/or others, risk of acting stupid in front of everyone, breaking the law (in some cases)

[truzoom]

Originally Posted by 8Banger

I don't see any pluses to alcohol. All that you drink it for is just so you can have a "good time" for the time that you're drunk. IMO, theres far too many downsides to a "good time" for 5-6 hours.

+: temporary fix, good time

-: money, health, risk of injury/death to you and/or others, risk of acting stupid in front of everyone, breaking the law (in some cases)

I think you may be automatically associating alcoholic beverages with "getting drunk", while for a lot of people that simply isn't the case.

[Spilchy]

I drink with all my dinners out. I usually eat out 2 to 3 times a week. My father is a HUGE wine enthusiast and I get to enjoy many awesome wines with my meals from his collection. We often go to wine pairing dinners where the owner of a winery comes to the restaurant and you get 5 glasses of wine that are complimented by 1 mini appetizer, 3 mini main courses and 1 mini dessert. They describe each wine and you can ask questions. It is a lot of fun and the food is gourmet phenomenal. It is a real social gathering and you get to meet a lot of new people. Nothing like a few drinks to break the ice and get the good vibes flowing!

With many of the BYOB restaurants, I bring a bottle of wine and a little bottle of Vodka and Roses Lime Juice. I like a cocktail (Vodka Gimlet) prior and accompanying my appetizer and then wine with my main course.

I also drink socially with friends and co-workers at bars. I drink Vodka Gimlets then.

I drink plain Stolichnaya Vodka. I've tried all of them as well as the flavored ones which I don't like too much. But there are a couple smaller brands that are good, one actually made with Meyer Lemons which is real nice.

But in college, forget it, I was mainlining beer and shots like no tomorrow! Those days ended a few years after college when I couldn't handle getting up for work after drinking all night. That was the fun of working in NY City; the night life. But it caught up to me real fast.

[rydawg]

Originally Posted by TortoiseAWD

Preach elsewhere, please. What did Jesus turn the water into at the wedding? It wasn't Kool-Aid.


Tort

No, but that's what I told the girls it was

[BlueLibby04]

Never drank and never plan too. Dont really see a use in it. Im happy with the way I feel when Im sober.

Some people take pride in drinking, dont really know why. Girls seem to think it makes them look cool but anytime I see a girl with a beer its a big turn off.

[rydawg]

I don't drink to much any more now that I have a kid, but years ago before I had a kid I would go out almost every night with different friends and party it up. I was blowing $500+ a week. I was getting very rowdy and out of control in the end and some of my friends were getting nervous hanging out with me. I then realized it was not funny anymore and needed to stop. My body was starting to ache and I starting getting really bad acid reflux and could hardly breathe the next day. After I had a kid I stopped and kept myself busy with other things. I will still go out and have a couple but nothing like before ever again. I just think about the money I spent and it makes me mad.

I did have a lot of fun though!

[jimmie jam]

haven't touched the stuff since april 22, 1982.

[8Banger]

Originally Posted by BlueLibby04

Never drank and never plan too. Dont really see a use in it. Im happy with the way I feel when Im sober.

Some people take pride in drinking, dont really know why. Girls seem to think it makes them look cool but anytime I see a girl with a beer its a big turn off.

+1, i don't need it to have fun so i just dont see any to start, i only see downsides to it, no pluses

water, on the other hand i drink at least 70oz per day

[8Banger]

oh and jimmie jam - good job bud!