Manual trans lessons...tips?

White95Max · 09-17-06, 11:39

First of all, if anyone has any tips to make the learning process quicker/easier, I'd love to hear them.
Anyway, I was teaching someone how to drive stick yesterday and it was actually her first time being in a M/T car. The first thing I had her do was learn where the clutch's engagement point was, by slowly letting the pedal out until the car could slowly roll without any gas input. She got that quickly, and was then able to add a little gas and get into second soon after. But as people started walking by (we were in a large parking lot), she got anxious and started having more trouble. The car bucked & stalled a few times, and this seemed to heat up the clutch/tranny or something. We tried starting from the beginning again, getting the car to roll with just the clutch pedal position. She could not get it to roll...it just kept bucking and stalling. At this point I got back into the driver's seat and immediately realized why it was being so difficult...the clutch felt WAY different. It engaged much higher than usual, and it didn't really feel like it wanted to move at all. I gave it a few seconds, and then got the hang of it. We decided that it was best to conclude the lesson at this point, and let the car have a break. It was not going to cooperate with a beginner when the clutch was acting that way.

Anyway, I was thinking about what may have happened, and right now I'm thinking that the clutch was probably just really hot. I went to work afterward, and when I came out, the car felt pretty much back to normal, thankfully. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. But right now I'm thinking about what damage may have occurred, if any. Are there metal shavings in my tranny fluid from this lesson? Should I change the fluid out? Should I let her get the hang of it fully, and THEN change the fluid out?

What exactly happens when the car bucks? If anyone doesn't know what I mean by "bucking", I mean the sudden back and forth jerks that you get when the car falls in revs and is about to stall.

Again, any tips that might help her learn quicker and maybe abuse the car less (

), I--and my car--would appreciate them.

CkretAjint · 09-17-06, 01:46

The clutch was just probably really hot. How old/many miles are on the clutch?

The bucking is just from lack of gas in the motor, so it WANTS to go forward, but there is no gas to ignite so it stalls out. If you feel it start to buck, just give it gas.

White95Max · 09-17-06, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by CkretAjint

The clutch was just probably really hot. How old/many miles are on the clutch?

The bucking is just from lack of gas in the motor, so it WANTS to go forward, but there is no gas to ignite so it stalls out. If you feel it start to buck, just give it gas.

The clutch is original as far as I know, so 84K miles on it and almost 8yrs old.

So does the lack of gas harm anything? I told her to just push the clutch as soon as it bucked. If I told her to hit the gas, she'd probably give it too much gas, and who knows what kinds of problems that might create.

D3mon · 09-17-06, 01:57

You're gonna need to give it a *little* gas while you lift the clutch. Unless the idle is set particularly high, the engine will likely not have the power to move the car without extra juice.

White95Max · 09-17-06, 02:25

My car is able to roll at a couple mph without any gas input. I've done it lots of times and she was able to do it as well. Other cars may be different.
My car's idle speed is about 700rpm.

the other pc · 09-17-06, 06:17

Highly unlikely it’s the trans. Manual transmissions are basically just boxes full of gears and oil (yeah, yeah there are synchros too but let’s stick to basics here) so when you break something it’s usually obvious, like grinding, snapping and shattering noises.

Hopefully it was just that the clutch was hot. Did you smell anything? Shuddering, sort of a side to side vibration of the driveline with some for/aft jerking, can be caused by a worn out or burned clutch, a warped flywheel or pressure plate or dead/missing trans mounts but those aren't likely to go away.

If any harm was done, it’s done but since the car’s working normally now there probably wasn’t any severe damage. I’d just keep driving it normally unless it starts acting up.

As for teaching her, you already got the hardest part done. Feeling the take-up is tough part and she’s got that. Now she just needs practice, in a deserted space of some kind.

PC.

White95Max · 09-17-06, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by the other pc

Highly unlikely it’s the trans. Manual transmissions are basically just boxes full of gears and oil (yeah, yeah there are synchros too but let’s stick to basics here) so when you break something it’s usually obvious, like grinding, snapping and shattering noises.

Hopefully it was just that the clutch was hot. Did you smell anything? Shuddering, sort of a side to side vibration of the driveline with some for/aft jerking, can be caused by a worn out or burned clutch, a warped flywheel or pressure plate or dead/missing trans mounts but those aren't likely to go away.

If any harm was done, it’s done but since the car’s working normally now there probably wasn’t any severe damage. I’d just keep driving it normally unless it starts acting up.

As for teaching her, you already got the hardest part done. Feeling the take-up is tough part and she’s got that. Now she just needs practice, in a deserted space of some kind.

PC.

There was no smell that either of us could detect. The car felt fine today on the way to/from work, and I had a little fun on a windy freeway onramp too, so I guess everything is normal. Now that I said that it'll probably come back to bite me in the ***.

Thanks for the reassurance. She does want to continue learning, so I guess I can't stop teaching now. I did suggest to her that she might want to watch me drive for a while first, and then when she is able to predict what I'm going to do as I drive on the roads, she should be ready to continue the learning process. She agreed, so that will be the course of action in the meantime.

There was only one grinding incident during lesson #1, which was caused by trying to shift without the clutch, and then pushing the clutch in while still pulling on the gear lever.

MorBid · 09-17-06, 11:54

yeah I'd be more concerned with "grinded 'em if you can't find 'em) than the lurch or buck. If your clutch felt out of whack from just that I would think it was something else.

That method your using for instruction of finding the friction point is age old. I would not start out teaching someone to drive a MT out in public. Take 'em back to the same lot when there is no one around and let em build up some confidence first.

White95Max · 09-18-06, 03:51

Are you suggesting a different method of teaching? I'm open to advice.

I was thinking that this giant campus parking lot would be empty, but I forgot about all the people that live in the nearby dorms that park there during the school year. I'll have to find another parking lot somewhere.

Dave KG · 09-18-06, 04:01

An industrial estate in the evening is a good idea, as there is little or no traffic and real roads to train on, which helps with junctions etc.

One thing I do to help people struggling with clutch control in a manual box (I hate Automatics with a passion that cannot be described!!) is play "catch the car". Basically, on a gently incline, I get someone to hold the car in first gear on the clutch. Then depress the clutch and let the car gently roll back and then catch it again with the clutch. Then up on the clutch a little more to move the car up the hill. Dont do this for long, as the clutch will start to get hot but its a great way of generating feel for the cluth pedal and how it bites. Very little gas is needed for this, keep the revs down (sub 1250rpm). This is how I was taught and I haven't stalled once in 6 years and 200k miles of driving.

CkretAjint · 09-18-06, 05:05

if you go after 10 or 11 at night, you can hit up the local mall parking lot. those are normall HUGE, and very deserted (except for security) but if you explain what your doing there, and keep your distance from stores, you should be good....

White95Max · 09-18-06, 06:48

Yeah, that was another thought of mine. The local mall has a lot of large, interconnected parking lots, and a couple roads as well. That might be a good place for the next lesson. I'd at least like her to be able to get into 3rd without being in traffic.