sedan hp wars & high gas prices??

[Tasty]

Originally Posted by FujiFast

Is the HP necessary? No.
Does it help sell cars? Yes.

Who's to blame? I think ultimately the government. If they instituted higher emissions standards and gas mileage for autos and actually regulated what SUVs spit out, this HP war wouldn't be so prominent. At the moment, the government's raising these standards at a snail's pace, totally at the whim of the industry. Therefore, auto makers are able to produce these high output engines. It's a major selling point and the public wants it. People will always want more HP, it's inevitable. Auto makers will always push the limits to maximize what they can. It drives innovation. With gas prices so high with seemingly no end in sight for when it'll ease up, you'd think the government would step in and push forward legislation boosting gas mileage and emissions standards...but nope.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HP a the ability to haul ***, I do so daily in my Rex, but am I willing to give some of it up to better the environment and lessen our usage of fossil fuels, damn straight I am!

Kudos!

[Picus]

Who is to blame? It's consumers. If people didn't buy these cars manufacturers wouldn't make them, period. The government shouldn't have to spoon-feed people and tell them that high hp vehicles in general use more gas and have higher emissions. If you want to help the environment that's your call, but right now clearly the buying public is more interested in going fast. Not saying I agree, I'm just not a big fan of the government telling people what to do.

I mean really, if Americans/Canadians were that concerned with mpg we would have more deisels. The fact that we don't is indicative of our unwillingness to compromise on power.

[gnahc79]

It's a tough call with how much government should be involved. Consumers usually don't worry about large scale implications like gasoline supply. Who cares if my gas bill goes up $10/month from driving a 3.8L V6? Then again I'm not so sure it's a good idea to let the market just do its own thing and potentially further deplete the gasoline supply at a greater rate.
We already have emissions regulations, which is a good thing IMO, they're just not pursing it aggressively enough.

[Amused]

Originally Posted by Picus

Who is to blame? It's consumers. If people didn't buy these cars manufacturers wouldn't make them, period. The government shouldn't have to spoon-feed people and tell them that high hp vehicles in general use more gas and have higher emissions. If you want to help the environment that's your call, but right now clearly the buying public is more interested in going fast. Not saying I agree, I'm just not a big fan of the government telling people what to do.

I mean really, if Americans/Canadians were that concerned with mpg we would have more deisels. The fact that we don't is indicative of our unwillingness to compromise on power.

P - you have a point, and I agree to some degree. Consumers want more. They ALWAYS want more. It's an American past time heh! But the government needs to play big brother a bit in this space. Look at the recent hit we Autopians took with respect to VOC regulations. Some of our favorite products were discontinued for the betterment of the environment...#16, Paste Glaz, etc...RIP. But newer products came out and have captured the fandom of these nixed products. Consumers still want more and still want better, and they're still getting it, just in an environmentally friendlier product. Of course this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but you get my drift.

The US government at the moment(I can't speak for your Canadian Parliament) is too heavily influenced by big business, including the auto industry. There's no question the progress of raising regulations have been stifled by them. If it were up to the auto industry, consumers would get everything they wanted, which is a bad thing...imagine everyone running catless? Ok, that's a bit extreme heh! Government is supposed to look after the interest of the nation and keep us from self-destruction. The current trend is favoring self-destruction in my opinion. Sure blame the consumers, but whose fault is it when you see a rampant spoiled child? The kid's or the parent's?

Hey, I'm not a fan of big government either, but some things need to be parented more than others. And, at present, the US government seems to be out of touch and out of focus with the needs of the nation.

[Tasty]

Originally Posted by Picus

Who is to blame? It's consumers. If people didn't buy these cars manufacturers wouldn't make them, period. The government shouldn't have to spoon-feed people and tell them that high hp vehicles in general use more gas and have higher emissions. If you want to help the environment that's your call, but right now clearly the buying public is more interested in going fast. Not saying I agree, I'm just not a big fan of the government telling people what to do.

I mean really, if Americans/Canadians were that concerned with mpg we would have more deisels. The fact that we don't is indicative of our unwillingness to compromise on power.

Sure, the consumers are to blame. HOWEVER, only in the USA will you find this kind of mindset. We are the fattest, most gluttonous country on the earth. We have it better than 99.9 percent of the rest of the world, even those of us that are the worst off in this country. The sad fact is Americans tend to forget that they aren't the only people on the planet, and that not everyone needs to live the way we do.

This small debate about cars points to a larger problem in this country. It is going to take something big to create the paradigm shift that we need. If we were to wake up tomorrow and Iran decided F the USA, and North Korea could launch a functional long range missile and didn't think we were worth talking to anymore, where do you think this country would be? There'd be a hell of a lot more of us car pooling.

[Picus]

I absolutely see your point. Being Canadian I've been raised in a near socialist country; while it's the same as the U.S in many ways the government definitely plays a larger role in the automobile industry here. I was playing devils advocate to some extent, but I do honestly believe that we haven't reached a point where the government needs to interfere with the automobile industry *to a large extent*. I do think it's wise of them to promote low emissions standards (and create laws that enforce them), and I think it's smart of them to offer incentives based on mpg - I'm also not opposed at all to more consumption taxes (pay to play), but I don't think it's quite time to force certain mileage ratings to be met. The government is elected by the people, and right now the people are clearly for more power at the expense of some mpg.

[Tasty]

I agree with some of what you said, but I think that it is PAST time for the government to mandate higher fuel economy. The fact is that the technology to do it is here NOW, and just isn't being used. The only question for that is: Why not? No politician in this country will give you a straight answer on that topic. This country allows too much influence via campaign contributions and such for these people to bite the hand that feeds them. CAFEs should be much higher across the board than they currently are. It's really just stupidity in action that what's allowed has been allowed for so long.

[victory]

i love being able to go fast but just feel sick every time i hit the pumps, so i went from a V8 to a supercharged V6, better gas milege and more power. I couldn't be happier.

Small dispancement + forced induction = the way to go

With turbo diesels winning LeMans, i feel we're in for power and economy once people start demanding it. And as much as it pains me to say it, detroit is way behind the times and about to fall further.

[gnahc79]

Originally Posted by Picus

The government is elected by the people, and right now the people are clearly for more power at the expense of some mpg.

You have think too highly of the U.S govt Picus . The government acting upon the people's behalf ended a long time ago.

[TigerMike]

Originally Posted by Tasty

Sure, the consumers are to blame. HOWEVER, only in the USA will you find this kind of mindset. We are the fattest, most gluttonous country on the earth. We have it better than 99.9 percent of the rest of the world, even those of us that are the worst off in this country. The sad fact is Americans tend to forget that they aren't the only people on the planet, and that not everyone needs to live the way we do.

Do you think that people in the U.S. work harder than probably any other country to attain what they want? I think so. Were we the fattest and most gluttonest when this country was founded? I think not! It took hard work to build it to where it is today. People deserve the rewards of their hard work. If you think we're all to fat and gluttons, why not give it all up and live in a fine community, such as, say, North Korea. I'm sure the people there aren't nearly as fat and gluttonous, and I'm sure they just love it that way too!

The government needs to stay out of it. I don't need any politicians telling me that I can't drive a car that gets 5 or 10 mpg. If that's the case, we're all headed towards driving electric/hybrid slo-pokes that epitomize the definition of boring. And, if they are going to tell me what I have to drive, then why stop there. Why not regulate what food goes into my mouth, or what I can watch on tv, or how much fun I'm allowed to have, or.... Sure, the technology is there...it's there to put people to sleep while they get their 60mpg.

Some people live in a world of "what-ifs" instead of the here and now. What if gas was $15 a gallon? People will adapt as the reailty of the world changes, if it changes. Buying a 60 mpg slo-poke because gas *may* skyrocket is like going ahead and getting a pace maker just in case you have heart trouble.

[Amused]

Originally Posted by TigerMike

Do you think that people in the U.S. work harder than probably any other country to attain what they want? I think so. Were we the fattest and most gluttonest when this country was founded? I think not! It took hard work to build it to where it is today. People deserve the rewards of their hard work. If you think we're all to fat and gluttons, why not give it all up and live in a fine community, such as, say, North Korea. I'm sure the people there aren't nearly as fat and gluttonous, and I'm sure they just love it that way too!

The government needs to stay out of it. I don't need any politicians telling me that I can't drive a car that gets 5 or 10 mpg. If that's the case, we're all headed towards driving electric/hybrid slo-pokes that epitomize the definition of boring. And, if they are going to tell me what I have to drive, then why stop there. Why not regulate what food goes into my mouth, or what I can watch on tv, or how much fun I'm allowed to have, or.... Sure, the technology is there...it's there to put people to sleep while they get their 60mpg.

Some people live in a world of "what-ifs" instead of the here and now. What if gas was $15 a gallon? People will adapt as the reailty of the world changes, if it changes. Buying a 60 mpg slo-poke because gas *may* skyrocket is like going ahead and getting a pace maker just in case you have heart trouble.

Let me get you right...because you think the US is the hardest working country in the world, it is our right to pollute more than any other country, almost indiscriminately, and consume the highest percentage of the world's natural resources? You think the government should allow the general public to do and have whatever they want? Your argument speaks of one thing, pompous greed...and that's one of the characteristics that causes other countries to HATE americans. We are not better than others. We don't work harder than every one else...Australia ranked first in that category last year. We don't take pride in our work like the Japanese, we have unions that fight for more pay and less work/productivity. We may have succeeded in certain aspects as a nation, but we surely suck in others!

NO one likes the idea of the governement playing big brother, but if the world was run by the masses, we would destroy ourselves and the world at a disgusting rate. Ideally, the government would have the best interest of the nation and world, but it's obvious that's not always the case. Greed and corruption are more prevalent and visible than ever amongst our elected officials and I've lost hope that they'll do what's right rather than what's easy for us all. Regulations don't necessarily mean taking fun and thrill out of life. The Japanese auto industry regulated themselves for decades with their 280hp limit and they produced some of the most amazing production vehicles in the last 20 years. The technology is there and ready to be implemented for tighter emissions and MPG ratings while not sacrificing much thrill. I'd much rather have a lighter car with less ponies that will run circles around a laden beast with a big block. And FYI, the government already regulates our food, what's on TV, and what we drive...and they're doing a lousy job. The sad thing is if we were allowed to watch over ourselves, we as a nation would probably do it even worse, we individually don't have the responsibility for it all. Big government sucks, I don't want them meddling with my money or misrepresent my interests, but we need them to better look after the welfare of the nation and world with what they're already doing in my opinion. No need to expand their powers, they have plenty already, we just need them to step up and fulfill their end of the bargain and not sell us out.

BTW, sorry for dragging this thread so off topic.
Yes, the current hp war in our state of high gas prices is a bit confusing and unnerving. Two major players capitolizing on our vulnerability.

[Joshua312]

Originally Posted by Danase

Not everyone cares about the gas prices to be honest. Some people just have the money and could care less. You really notice this on the water here in Michigan. Still tons of boaters on the lake and gas is over $4.00 a gallon on the water.

Exactly, I have a premium gas only car with it's supercharger..and to tell you the truth I rarely look at the price when I go to fill up. Its not because Im loaded and can afford it, trust me I wish I could But I need to fill up, so Im going to have to pay the price...and it was my decision to purchase this vehicle because of the hp, options, and style of the vehicle. If I had to do it over again, I would still choose the vehicle I have.

And for the boaters, I live in west michigan, and there is no lack of boaters because of gas prices this summer. It is crazy how many speed boats and all those pimped out race boats or huge yachts I see in the water.

Quote from Victory: "supercharged V6, better gas milege and more power. "
You bet! I love my supercharged V6! I get around 22mpg if Im driving good....18 if I want to show off