My restored M1 Garand. Pics

[Intel486]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

IMO it's just a matter of the game not accurately reflecting reality. The US .30-06 and the German 7.92 are so ballistically similar that it's silly to say one is more/less effective than the other. IIRC, the insignificant advantage would actually go to the Garand's .30-06 which was eventally determined to be "overkill" and was toned down to be more like the Mauser's 7.62 with the result being the 7.62/.308 NATO round used in the M14.

The 30-06 was a pretty large round. I think the reason the 7.62 NATO was made was in an attempt to give soldiers a Main Battle Rifle that could be full-auto. A M1 Garand definately beats you around and doesn't have the fastest split times between shots.

For those that have never seen some of those calibers, here's a size comparison picture.
From left to right we have:
9mm
.44 Magnum
5.56mm (What the modern day M16, AR15, M4 shoots)
7.26 NATO (What the M14 shoots, M14 DMR, M24, M40A1, etc. .308 is a very accurate round)
25-06 REM
7mm Magnum
30-06 (M1 Garand, Springfield 1903, BAR, M1919)

[Accumulator]

Intel486- That's a good line up to give people and idea of what we're talking about. I'm always surprised at how big a 7mm mag is. I see the en-bloc clip for the M1 in the background...

Yeah, the big old stuff like the 7.92 and the .30-06 were really more suited to an older style of warfare with longer ranges. WWII pretty put an end to that sort of caliber as a standard infantry round.

That's a good point about how nobody would want to be the Germans if the game accurately depicted the tactical disadvantage of having a bolt-action gun in a semi/full-automatic war.

And yeah, the M1 Carbine is a sweetie to shoot. Note that despite its low power it was the favorite of Audie Murphy, who did just fine with it.

Other trivia:

That MP44, which I think is a really cool piece, is the grandaddy of the AK-47, and the MP44's short version of the 7.92 became the 7.92x39 that the AK, SKS,and countless other such guns use.

[Mr.Concours]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Intel486-
That MP44, which I think is a really cool piece, is the grandaddy of the AK-47, and the MP44's short version of the 7.92 became the 7.92x39 that the AK, SKS,and countless other such guns use.

The Sturm Gewbweher was the Father of the AK47, comrade Kalashnikov basicly copied and improved the design (read ripped off) from captured German rifles,it was the first real assault rifle in the modern sense of the word,but to few to late were introduced into the second world war to make any difference to the outcome.

Cant remember the caliber of the rifle but think it was pretty close to 5.56.

[GearHead_1]

Originally Posted by Mr.Concours

Cant remember the caliber of the rifle but think it was pretty close to 5.56.

The AK 47's caliber is: 7.62 X 39. There were some variants of the AK 47 designated the AK 74, its caliber is 5.45 X 39.

[Accumulator]

Mr. Concours- Heh heh, but of course to hear Comrade Kalashnikov tell it he came up with the design all on his own and the similarities are purely coincidental

Heh heh#2, note that the now-pejorative "assault rifle" came from the German "sturm-G" designation for the MP44...

Cant remember the caliber of the rifle but think it was pretty close to 5.56.

If you meant what caliber the MP44 was, it was a radically shortened version of the 8mm Mauser round, even shorter, IIRC than the 7.62x39 with a different angle to the case's shoulder. The early evaluations of the whole system are interesting to read, the sharper pencils in the box realized that there'd been a sea-change in the world of the infantry rifle and that this was the new paradigm.

[Mr.Concours]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Mr. Concours- Heh heh, but of course to hear Comrade Kalashnikov tell it he came up with the design all on his own and the similarities are purely coincidental

Heh heh#2, note that the now-pejorative "assault rifle" came from the German "sturm-G" designation for the MP44...



If you meant what caliber the MP44 was, it was a radically shortened version of the 8mm Mauser round, even shorter, IIRC than the 7.62x39 with a different angle to the case's shoulder. The early evaluations of the whole system are interesting to read, the sharper pencils in the box realized that there'd been a sea-change in the world of the infantry rifle and that this was the new paradigm.

Accumulator,I was getting confused with the MP40 submachine gun (often wrongly called a schmeshmisher 'thats how its sounds not sure how its spelt'!)as always I bow to your superior product knowledge!

[Accumulator]

Mr Concours- Heh heh, well, I know more about *these* products than I do about all the detailing products out there these days

The MP38/40/41(now there's a rare one for you) all took the standard 9mm, but function best with the hot "machine pistol" load.

I just realized that in a few cases I typed "7.62" for the WWII German round instead of "7.92 Off to edit....

[Prometheus]

That is an awesome looking M1. My dad has an original army issue m1 carbine, and every time we shoot it I have this sense of awe about it, what it's been through that I will never know. I always wanted an M1, hopefully some day I will get one as nice as yours.

Little OT, my father also has an SKS that soots the 7.62x39 ammo, and it is significatly weaker than that 30-06. To me, the x39 round is very similar to the 30 carbine round that the m1 carbine shoots. Definately a fun piece to shoot though. I always wanted to shoot a russian or german 7.62x54 rifle, that seemed like it would be a lot of fun, but I haven't yet had the chance. I almost picked up a russian infantry model awhile ago, and I'm kind of kicking myself for not doing it. Glad I didn't pass on the .45 though