GM Quality Control - Page 4

SpoiledMan · 12-23-05, 09:48

No, their not as different as the Grand Am and GTO but they aren't as similar as you'd like to think either. The level of equipment, the ride, the electronics, the quality of the materials used are just some of the things that don't come from the same "parts bin" like you find in so many of the GM cars. I have seen GTO's new on the lot with enough money on their noses to buy another small car. Try that with a TSX(Euro Accord).

jnmttu · 12-23-05, 10:06

As someone who owns an Accord and a car based off that same Accord, I can honestly say that it is possible to build a car off of a common platform and have it feel entirely different. My Acura and my wife's Accord are world's apart in several areas. The difference between Honda and GM is that Honda is only spreading that platfrom between the TL, the Accord and partially the Euro Accord/TSX, which by the way, fells completely different than the other two.

GM will typically spread a platform over 4 or more cars. This begins to limit each car based on what the platform must be in order to conform to a common goal. VW/Audi used to have this same problem. They have started to move away from this. Jettas/Golfs/Passats/A4s/A6s were all a little bit too much the same for the price spread they had on them.

One of GM's other problems, and they have done it for years, and it caused this very problem, is that they will typically change lights and wheels to update a body style while leaving sheetmetal alone. Honda/Toyota, Ford, and whoever else use this spuce-up tactic as well, but they usually also tweak the body panels enough that this kind of thing couldn't happen. I used to like some of the GM stuff, but they have cut corners to the point that I won't touch it.

In conclusion, try to fit an '05 Accord taillight on an '06, an ES330 tailiight on a Camry, or an Accord taillight on a TL. Guess what, none of them fit.

chpsk8 · 12-23-05, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora40

Define "HUGE"? How many parts do they share? And taken in the context of this thread, you feel the difference between the ES and Camry is bigger than the diff between the Grand Am and GTO?

Ever driven a LeSabre and a Bonneville? Think they feel the same? And they don't even look the same. Think the same can be said of the ES and Camry?

Correct, the ES is based on the Camry platform, and incorporates similar parts. Having driven both besides the obvious trim levels, the one difference I could see was in increase in sound dampening and a softer suspension in the ES.

The Lexus LS platform is based off the Toyota Celsior.
The Lexus GS is based off the Toyota Aristo.

Toyota has never tried to hide that fact that they are a huge part of Lexus.

Remember GM swearing up and down they had nothing to do with Saturn? Now that was a ruse!

Wiki Lexus Info

SpoiledMan · 12-23-05, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnmttu

The difference between Honda and GM is that Honda is only spreading that platfrom between the TL, the Accord and partially the Euro Accord/TSX, which by the way, fells completely different than the other two.

Little correction-

The Accord(mid size global platform) spawns:

TL
RL
Odyssey
Ridgeline
MDX
Pilot

Pretty much all the manufacturers are doing it. The problem is in *how* they do it.

chpsk8 · 12-23-05, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

Little correction-

The Accord(mid size global platform) spawns:

TL
RL
Odyssey
Ridgeline
MDX
Pilot

Pretty much all the manufacturers are doing it. The problem is in *how* they do it.

...or how obviously they do it. Sharing the Accord platform with vehicles that dont' resemble the donor platform is a key factor here. GM just mildly reshapes a product, then slaps new badging on it and calls it "new and different". Honda just uses the raw platform of chassis sometimes suspension to create unrelated products. That is smart AND creative engineering.

SpoiledMan · 12-23-05, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by chpsk8

...or how obviously they do it. Sharing the Accord platform with vehicles that dont' resemble the donor platform is a key factor here. GM just mildly reshapes a product, then slaps new badging on it and calls it "new and different". Honda just uses the raw platform of chassis sometimes suspension to create unrelated products. That is smart AND creative engineering.

My point exactly. You will not mistake a TL for an Accord.

Aurora40 · 12-23-05, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

My point exactly. You will not mistake a TL for an Accord.

But you often mistake a Bonneville for a LeSabre, or a Park Avenue for a Deville, or an XLR with a Corvette... Just apply the arguments you all have made for the imports to GM. Drive the cars, and see if they are the same just with different badges. In some cases they are pretty similar and look similar, as does an ES and Camry. In some cases you'd be surprised they are the same car. Apparently owners of Hondas and Toyotas can say "I own one, they are different" and that's good enough, in spite of the obvious similarities in exterior styling, interior layout, etc. But I guess a GM owner who says the same thing must be delusional...

Don't worry, though, you all aren't the only ones with the double-standard. I see it all the time in the auto rags too.

jnmttu · 12-23-05, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

Little correction-

The Accord(mid size global platform) spawns:

TL
RL
Odyssey
Ridgeline
MDX
Pilot

I stand corrected. For some reason I let my mind lapse on my day off and completly forgot about all those trucks and vans. I guess I still remember the days when buying a Honda meant you could pick a Civic, an Accord, or a Prelude. Well, please forgive my misstep.

SpoiledMan · 12-23-05, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora40

But you often mistake a Bonneville for a LeSabre, or a Park Avenue for a Deville, or an XLR with a Corvette... Just apply the arguments you all have made for the imports to GM. Drive the cars, and see if they are the same just with different badges. In some cases they are pretty similar and look similar, as does an ES and Camry. In some cases you'd be surprised they are the same car. Apparently owners of Hondas and Toyotas can say "I own one, they are different" and that's good enough, in spite of the obvious similarities in exterior styling, interior layout, etc. But I guess a GM owner who says the same thing must be delusional...

Don't worry, though, you all aren't the only ones with the double-standard. I see it all the time in the auto rags too.

Looks like the buying public agrees too. If it wasn't for fleet(rental cars) GM would be in deeper than they are now.

SpoiledMan · 12-23-05, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnmttu

I stand corrected. For some reason I let my mind lapse on my day off and completly forgot about all those trucks and vans. I guess I still remember the days when buying a Honda meant you could pick a Civic, an Accord, or a Prelude. Well, please forgive my misstep.

Seems like it wasn't all that long ago.

I'm looking to buy a super Accord(TL) in the next year. Maybe I shouldn't though and just keep my Odyssey as you can't *really* tell the difference anyway. Right?

theeloved1 · 12-23-05, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by chpsk8

I spent a month in Belvidere where they mad the Dodge and Plymough Neon. I saw countless errors similar to this. Cars with Plymouth badges and Dodge steering wheels, or Plymouth on one side fo the car and Dodge on the other.
I've seen assembly people walk down the line and throw parts on a vehicle without the proper jigs just to get a few cars ahead and be able to go to break earlier.

Funny you should say that, as I'm the thread starter and I just so happen to live in Belvidere

I personally know many of the assembly people that I'm sure were the ones messing up

Just about every car is based off the platform of another car and all that...Just about every sedan on the road looks the same nowadays.

the difference with GM is that the vehicles aren't just based off the same platform, they are like 98% identical. I say this as a Chevy Tahoe owner...they are the exact same vehicle as a Yukon....trim packages aside. They get chrome trim, I had to debadge my ugly black trim....they get single piece headlights, mine is a split assembly...etc. They aren't just "based" off each other, they are identical. Just like these Silverados/Sierras, and just about everything else GM makes.

BTW...GTO's look like Grand PRIXs, not Grand AMs....cuz I own a Grand Prix as well..haha

chpsk8 · 12-23-05, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by theeloved1

Funny you should say that, as I'm the thread starter and I just so happen to live in Belvidere

I personally know many of the assembly people that I'm sure were the ones messing up

The one that floored my was the chick sleeping in the passenger seat as the car was going down the line. Eventually a mobile worker checking ECUs woke her up... she proceeded to walk back another dozen cars or so and hop into the passenger seat and continue her nap!

So if you ever see drool on a new car seat and wonder where it came from... I know where!!!