"Loose Change" - 9/11 Conspiracy by Dylan Avery

[G35stilez]

Originally Posted by FalconGuy

Speaking of conspiracies I have uncovered one of my own, That Fudgey the whale cake Carvel makes uses the same mold that the Santa cake mold uses. Coincidence I think not

You weren't kidding.

[Setec Astronomy]

Outstanding! A Stephen Wright quote! I hope Arlen Specter has that Fudgy/Santa thing on his list after the FISA stuff, too. LOL!

[Tasty]

Spilchy - You are very informed and quite succinct in your posts. I guess we agree to disagree on matters of politics, but thanks for enlightened discussion. Between this thread and the one I started on Pres. Bush I have been thinking about this stuff a lot the last couple of days and that's a good thing! Too bad more people don't spend time to contemplate these matters until 2 seconds before they walk in the polling booth.

[Pontman43]

That all there is left to say. lol

[Spilchy]

Thanks Tasty - Likewise. I appreciate your input as well, and understand why we can get so heated. Your opinion is just as valid as mine and everyone elses's (except conspirators ) and I enjoy discussing these things.

Just a heads up to folks - I'm not a flag waver or a war monger or a blind follower of Bush's foreign policy. I'm a registered Deomocrat In fact, I'm rather liberal in many other areas.

I've always been interested in the nitty gritty of our shadow world of our foreign policy (and Europe's) and read many, many things from respected policy and military think tanks as well as liberal and conservative sources that help shape my opinions. It's one of my hobbies. I've been following the Taliban and how they rose to power with the aid of the Pakastani intelligence service way back in 1996 after reading about them in National Geographic (I believe). If the U.S. (the CIA) didn't abandon Afghanistan after the Soviets left, who knows, maybe none of this stuff (911 specifically) would have occured. (Or, if Clinton took real action there the 4 times we were hit by Al Qaeda in the 90's, not to mention taking Sudan up on their offer to hand over Bin laden while he was there).

Contrary to popular belief, the United States (CIA) along with Pakistan did not work with Bin Laden and foreign jihadists that came via the Arab countries during the Soviet occupation. They hated us then too. Rather we worked with local Afghan mujahadeen supplying them with tons of training, small arms, 120mm mortars, wire guided anti-tank missles and most importantly the Stinger Missle which broke the back of the Soviets allowing the mass flow of weapons and manpower to flow in from Pakistan (like the Ho Chi Min Trail). We made it like a bloody, demoralizing Vietnam for the Soviets (like they did to us).

This whole thing is real nasty and convoluted and I privately question our motives there (Iraq, not Afghanistan) and all the things that went wrong. Things are going to get far worse before they get better. Every new "Democracy" goes through a form of civil war and we're going to watch one unfold on TV in Iraq with our boys stuck in the middle. But, in my opinion, as tough as it will be, in the long run, IMHO, it is in our nation's economic, strategic and philosophical best interests. We have to remain the superpower. It may take YEARS, but in the span of history, that's nothing. It's just that we're living through it. We've stood down some terrible enemies and ideologies in the past taking most of Europe (not Britain!) kicking and screaming along the way, and we'll defeat this unconventional ideology of Islamic Facism. In my opinion, and this is why I get so angry, our worst enemy is not the terrorists, but ourselves.

[Lowejackson]

Originally Posted by Spilchy

... In my opinion, and this is why I get so angry, our worst enemy is not the terrorists, but ourselves.

I beleive this to be true in many situations.

Originally Posted by Spilchy

....We've stood down some terrible enemies and ideologies in the past taking most of Europe kicking and screaming along the way.. .

Not so sure about this bit

[Spilchy]

Originally Posted by Lowejackson

Not so sure about this bit

LOL, I edited it just before you posted! I'm talking about "Old Europe" (i.e. the country whose butt we kicked and the country whose butt we saved). And I mean this in more recent times, although the French always whined about our Cold War policies.

[Tasty]

Originally Posted by Spilchy

Thanks Tasty - Likewise. I appreciate your input as well, and understand why we can get so heated. Your opinion is just as valid as mine and everyone elses's (except conspirators ) and I enjoy discussing these things.

Just a heads up to folks - I'm not a flag waver or a war monger or a blind follower of Bush's foreign policy. I'm a registered Deomocrat In fact, I'm rather liberal in many other areas.

I've always been interested in the nitty gritty of our shadow world of our foreign policy (and Europe's) and read many, many things from respected policy and military think tanks as well as liberal and conservative sources that help shape my opinions. It's one of my hobbies. I've been following the Taliban and how they rose to power with the aid of the Pakastani intelligence service way back in 1996 after reading about them in National Geographic (I believe). If the U.S. (the CIA) didn't abandon Afghanistan after the Soviets left, who knows, maybe none of this stuff (911 specifically) would have occured. (Or, if Clinton took real action there the 4 times we were hit by Al Qaeda in the 90's, not to mention taking Sudan up on their offer to hand over Bin laden while he was there).

Contrary to popular belief, the United States (CIA) along with Pakistan did not work with Bin Laden and foreign jihadists that came via the Arab countries during the Soviet occupation. They hated us then too. Rather we worked with local Afghan mujahadeen supplying them with tons of training, small arms, 120mm mortars, wire guided anti-tank missles and most importantly the Stinger Missle which broke the back of the Soviets allowing the mass flow of weapons and manpower to flow in from Pakistan (like the Ho Chi Min Trail). We made it like a bloody, demoralizing Vietnam for the Soviets (like they did to us).

This whole thing is real nasty and convoluted and I privately question our motives there (Iraq, not Afghanistan) and all the things that went wrong. Things are going to get far worse before they get better. Every new "Democracy" goes through a form of civil war and we're going to watch one unfold on TV in Iraq with our boys stuck in the middle. But, in my opinion, as tough as it will be, in the long run, IMHO, it is in our nation's economic, strategic and philosophical best interests. We have to remain the superpower. It may take YEARS, but in the span of history, that's nothing. It's just that we're living through it. We've stood down some terrible enemies and ideologies in the past taking most of Europe (not Britain!) kicking and screaming along the way, and we'll defeat this unconventional ideology of Islamic Facism. In my opinion, and this is why I get so angry, our worst enemy is not the terrorists, but ourselves.

Now that post I was totally down with.

[pigeonbus]

So.....how bout them Packers?

[Tasty]

LOL, Favre needs to ride the pine. Whether he's Favre or not.

[LKDFW]

This is for everyone to read regardaless of your political beliefs or how think you our mistakes may have put us in the circumstances we are all in. Just look at the facts and decide for yourself if this WAR IS FOR REAL. This is a summary of a piece written by one of our Generals.

1. When did the threat to the US begin? Many people think it was 9/11 but look at the FACTS;
1979 Iran Embassy Hostages
Beirut, Lebanon Embassy
Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks - 233 Marines Killed - 1983
Lockerbie, Scotrland Pan AM Flight - Bomb KIlled Everyone -1988
First New York World Trade Center Bombing - 1993
Dhahran, Suadi Arabia - Kohbar Towers Attack - 1996
Dares Salaam, Tanzania - U.S. Embassy Bombing - 1998
Nairobi, Kenya - U.S. Embassy Bombing -1998
Aden, Yemen, USS Cole Bombing -2000
New York World Trade Center - 2001
Pentagon - 2001

Note that during the peirod from 1981 - 2001 there 7,581 terriost attacks worlwide which includes cruise ship, airport, and Cia agents shot in there cars on the streets of D.C.

These attacks were carried out by Muslim Extremist and although they focus their hate on the US they will kill anyone who gets in thier way as shown by the Spanish and English murders.

Now ask yourself can we lose this war?
What does losing really mean?
Many people think losing means we hang our heads and bring the troops home and go about our business just as we did after Vietnam. This is no where near the truth. The truth is we would no longer be a trusted super power in the world, the attacks would not subside, but would increase not only because they want to kill as many of us as possible, but because they want to neuter us into being submissive to them. No other country would support our policies for fear of being attacked. Bottom line is if we do not stop these extremists then who will?

These murderers know what is riding on the outcome of this war and we better all know it as well. If we are united we cannot lose - if we are divided we will implode. The media truly has no grasp of what is at stake as they continue to point fingers and even talk of crimes the President has committed. The purpose of terroism is to disrupt our way of life with the constant threat of death hanging over Americans and if the media does not get that then they are oblivious to the magnitude of the situation.

IN closing can anyone name one Muslim country that allows freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of press, equal rights for all, let alone equal staus for women or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world other than oil.

We will not have our freedom taken away by a military force. Instead we could give away our freedoms away politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

Where Muslim Extremists have taken over countries they start killing each other over who will be the few in command.
Stay UNITED NO MATTER WHAT and there is no way they will win this war.

[wlhump]

LKDFW...........AMEN!
The stakes in this 'war' are different than in any previous war we fought. As you've shown, the terrorist have infinitely more patience than the general American public has or would believe. They know they can wait us out. The radical Muslims feel they have been fighting this 'war' since the Crusades, so what's another 10-20 years. They will not give up! And winning for them means elimination of all others.
Losing for us means losing everything, not a quiet existance in 'our corner' of the world.