Any home theater buffs?

[the other pc]

Room placement is a big factor in bass reproduction. The two sets being on different length walls and your relative seating position were probably the overwhelming factors in the differences you heard. I'll bet if they were set up more alike you wouldn't hear so dramatic a difference in bass.

Since the shop is willing to let you bring in your own receiver (kudos to them) to try with the speakers you're considering the only way you'll really know is to do it (but if that's a big hassle try the room placement with their equipment first).

Set up the speakers next to each other, trying to get as close to the same position relative to you and the room boundaries as when listening at home. Hook them both up and listen. Use your amp's A/B speaker switching or just plug and unplug the two sets. You'll have to adjust volume every time you swap pairs of speakers (due to the difference in sensitivity) so you won't be able to flip back and forth quickly but you'll be able spend some time listening to each.

A single number like "Watts" can't completely describe amplifier performance any more than "horsepower" can be the entire description of a car's performance. All other things being equal the amp with higher Wattage will simply play that much louder into the same speakers but all other things are rarely equal.

The "cult of Wattage" started in the seventies with the advent of high powered solid state amps (I believe we can thank Bob Carver and Jim Bongiorno for that) and then morphed in the eighties and nineties when autosound started to grow big. Power is one of the few amplifier characteristics that's commonly published and measured using a standardized method but it is only one part of the complex interaction between an amplifier and a speaker.


PC.

[PrinzII]

What's the latest news on this?

[BlackSunshine]

Originally Posted by PrinzII

What's the latest news on this?

I'm going to be checking out some other brands this weekend. There's a shop that carries B&W, another that carries Paradigm, and then I'm going to go back to the shop here in town and hook my receiver up to the Monitor RS-8s and Klipsch RF-7s again and try to make a choice.

Any others in the $2000 price range I should check out? I was thinking about the Paradigm Studio 100s and I'm not sure which B&W (if any) fall in this price range.

[BlackSunshine]

Well I went and heard some real serious speakers today. Went to a high end A/V shop in KC where they sell B&W, Martin Logan, Wilson, etc. I listened to some 700 and 800 series B&Ws and the imagining, midrange and treble was just stunning. They sounded amazing, but still left me wanting a little more in the bass. I like punchy bass. Plus, they just did not sound worth anywhere from $4000 to $12000 which they were priced.

I came back and listened to the Monitor RS-8s and they sounded great in the lower frequencies. I still have to audition the Paradigms. I went to the local Paradigm dealer Friday afternoon but they couldn't get any of their speakers to work for some reason, soooooo I'll have to drive back before I make a final choice, but so far, I'm leaning towards the Monitors. I hope I have enough power for them. I think they're rated at 91db sensitivity, which is almost 10db less than I'm used to, but they do sound better in the store than my current Infinity Studio Montitors at home.

[ZaneO]

IMO...

Onkyo Integra for music emphasis and good movie surround.

Pioneer Elite for movie emphasis and good stereo sound.

I run an Onkyo/Paradigm setup.

I have an amazing hook up here in Lubbock for high-end equipment (Integra, Denon, Pioneer Elite, Levinson, Paradigm, B&W, Velodyne, etc.). It might even be worth the trip here.

Let me know what you decide on, and I'll let you know what kind of prices I can get for you.

[BlackSunshine]

Originally Posted by ZaneO

IMO...

Onkyo Integra for music imphasis and good movie surround.

Pioneer Elite for movie imphasis and good stereo sound.

I run an Onkyo/Paradigm setup.

I have an amazing hook up here in Lubbock for high-end equipment (Integra, Denon, Pioneer Elite, Levinson, Paradigm, B&W, Velodyne, etc.). It might even be worth the trip here.

Let me know what you decide on, and I'll let you know what kind of prices I can get for you.

Lucky If I had a hookup on A/V equipment, I would have been broke long ago. PM sent, thanks for the heads up.


On another note, the RS-8s are rated at a nominal impedance of 6 ohms. My receiver is switchable between 4 and 8. Will this be a problem?

[the other pc]

Originally Posted by BlackSunshine

...On another note, the RS-8s are rated at a nominal impedance of 6 ohms. My receiver is switchable between 4 and 8. Will this be a problem?

When you say “switchable between 4 and 8” do you mean that you can use either or do you mean there’s an actual switch to set? If it’s rated for either it will work just fine with 6 Ohm speakers. If you have to change a setting of some sort set it for 4 Ohms.


PC.

[BlackSunshine]

Originally Posted by the other pc

When you say “switchable between 4 and 8” do you mean that you can use either or do you mean there’s an actual switch to set? If it’s rated for either it will work just fine with 6 Ohm speakers. If you have to change a setting of some sort set it for 4 Ohms.


PC.

There's an actual switch on the back that I can switch back and forth from 4 to 8 ohms for the mains, and the rears and center also change accordingly, I don't remember what to.

Here's a link to the receiver online where you can check out the specs, if you would be so kind. http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi...R00010HTR-5250

And a link to the owner's manual-->http://www.yamaha.com/menuitems/manu...c/HTR-5250.pdf

The 4 ohm setting on the receiver won't cause problems with speakers rated at 6 ohms nominal impedance? I will eventually (as in several months from now) be upgrading my receiver to a newer unit with closer to 150 watts per channel, 6 ohm capability to compliment the Monitors, and better control over my subwoofer. In the meantime, I'd be using the Yamaha.

As for speakers, I'm pretty much sold on the Monitor RS-8's, RS-LCR for a center, and two RF-1 bookshelves for surround duty. I'll be bi-wiring the RS-8s and possibly adding another sub just for fun, or maybe just upgrading. If anybody wants a 10 month old SVS PB10-ISD, let me know

[the other pc]

Originally Posted by BlackSunshine

...The 4 ohm setting on the receiver won't cause problems with speakers rated at 6 ohms nominal impedance? ...

Nope, 4 Ohms or higher. There's a table on page 18 (.pdf page 22) of the manual that says how to set the switch for different speakers. (It basically says what I just said.)

Impedance of an electrical device is just like a restriction in an air hose. Higher impedance is like having a greater restriction i.e. a smaller hole. Lower impedance is like having a bigger hole.

It may seem that the higher restriction is a higher load, and that would be true if we were trying to achieve a given flow (electrical current). The more restrictive the device the more power it would take to achieve that flow through it.

But amplifiers and speakers aren't designed for flow (current). They're for pressure (voltage). To maintain a desired pressure takes more work if the hole is less restrictive because when you try to build pressure it all leaks out. It's easier to build pressure behind a smaller hole. It takes less power to achieve a given voltage (pressure) on an 8 Ohm speaker than on a 4 Ohm speaker, just as it takes less air compressor power to run an airbrush (small hole/big restriction/low flow) than an HVLP spray gun (big hole/small restriction/high flow).

A 4 Ohm speaker is actually a heavier load than an 8 Ohm speaker and a 6 Ohm speaker is right in the middle.


PC.

[BlackSunshine]

Originally Posted by the other pc

Nope, 4 Ohms or higher. There's a table on page 18 (.pdf page 22) of the manual that says how to set the switch for different speakers. (It basically says what I just said.)

Impedance of an electrical device is just like a restriction in an air hose. Higher impedance is like having a greater restriction i.e. a smaller hole. Lower impedance is like having a bigger hole.

It may seem that the higher restriction is a higher load, and that would be true if we were trying to achieve a given flow (electrical current). The more restrictive the device the more power it would take to achieve that flow through it.

But amplifiers and speakers aren't designed for flow (current). They're for pressure (voltage). To maintain a desired pressure takes more work if the hole is less restrictive because when you try to build pressure it all leaks out. It's easier to build pressure behind a smaller hole. It takes less power to achieve a given voltage (pressure) on an 8 Ohm speaker than on a 4 Ohm speaker, just as it takes less air compressor power to run an airbrush (small hole/big restriction/low flow) than an HVLP spray gun (big hole/small restriction/high flow).

A 4 Ohm speaker is actually a heavier load than an 8 Ohm speaker and a 6 Ohm speaker is right in the middle.


PC.

Interesting, very insightful. Based on your info, I went ahead and had my local store order me a new set of Monitor RS-8s to use with my receiver for the time being. When the time comes, I will also order the corresponding center and rears, but I'm not too worried about it since I'm a music guy.

I want to thank you all again, especially the other pc, for all your help and recommendations. I learned more in this thread than in my past couple of years reading up on this stuff.

[BlackSunshine]

Brought the RS-8s they had as demos (on the floor for about 2 weeks) home today at a discounted price. Got them bi-wired and man, do they sound great. Love the sound, love the size, love the finish.

Now to start saving for more upgrades

[the other pc]

Originally Posted by BlackSunshine

...man, do they sound great. Love the sound, love the size, love the finish....

Glad you like ‘em. MA makes a really fine product (and some of the best finished cabinets in the industry).

Enjoy.


PC.