HP wars...what will Ford do next?

[rydawg]

Great thread! First off, I just had to go to 4 gas stations to get gas as all of them were out of gas. This is just down right scary. And owning a gas guzler myself is not a great feeling at all.

Second, my friend who was in the gas crush back in the days said, it's happening all over again. He was rather a lucky one back in the day who had money and benefited from it. He picked up three 67 and 68 Shelby GT 500's for dirt cheap money as no one wanted them cause they were big block gas guzzlers.

I just hope the technology does allow for more HP and gas EPA in the 30's.

[beabout]

Ford, GM & Mopar are in serious trouble. GM world wide is doing fine, it is the US market that is down.

[Jayhawker]

I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's (i'm 37) the F body Mustang ruled the roost. Other than the Buick Grand National and Vette, there wasn't much (American that is) that would run with a 5.0 Mustang. Heck, I don't think that Mopar was even in the game then. Are any of you old enough to remember the SVO Mustang?

There are so many changes that are going on today, it will be very interesting to see what Ford does.

[wytstang]

Ah yes the little 4 banger that could take 5.0 very nice cars.

Ford has never stayed in the game w/o forced induction... they'll stay w/ smaller engines and just throw blowers on them... thats their way.

How you you figure? The fact that N/A the mustangs 281 motors have made 1 hp per cubic inch has kept them in the game.

[kkreit01]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker

I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's (i'm 37) the F body Mustang ruled the roost. Other than the Buick Grand National and Vette, there wasn't much (American that is) that would run with a 5.0 Mustang. Heck, I don't think that Mopar was even in the game then. Are any of you old enough to remember the SVO Mustang?

There are so many changes that are going on today, it will be very interesting to see what Ford does.

Chrysler/Mopar had a few rare fwd quick Turbos back then, but no direct competition to Mustangs/Camaros. The Daytona IROC R/T, Sprit R/T, and a few Shelbys come to mind.

[Dylan06SS]

Originally Posted by wytstang

How you you figure? The fact that N/A the mustangs 281 motors have made 1 hp per cubic inch has kept them in the game.

1hp p/cubic inch in a 281 < the LS2 (364 cubic inches putting out 400hp)

The ratio of HP to cubes is something GM will always win... ford uses blowers to make power. In recent memory when has anything ford put out stacked up to its GM couterpart without the help of a blower??

Admitting my bowtie bias here, but compare the past few generations of F-Body's (maros, and trans ams) to the equivalent on the blue oval side (mustang GT/Cobra) All of the high performance ford platforms have had to throw a huffer on top of their anemic rod throwing engines to keep up with the power the GM platforms are putting out NA!!

****... even at the upper eschelon if we compare the supercar from each side... the GT500 vs. the Z06 Vette... even there the ford guys had to throw a blower on top and still get beat down by the NA vette.

I know its going to be hard to admit as a ford fan, but you have to concede that GM has PERFECTED the pushrod V8 over the last few decades to a point that Ford or Crystler can't ever hope to catch up... the LSx based platform is bar none the single greatest and most versatile push rod V8 ever developed and it just keeps getting better.

Thats not to entirely discredit fords offerings... the mustang is a nice car... not my cup of tea, but they're damn respectable and put down insane power with small things like pully swaps, etc. My point was that ford has relied so heavily on FI of late that I don't think they could put out a high HP vehicle without a SCr on it. I myself have always just preferred a stronger platform to build on... making power on the motor is always better IMO... still leaves the door open for adding FI later to really take it to the next level.

[rydawg]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker

I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's (i'm 37) the F body Mustang ruled the roost. Other than the Buick Grand National and Vette, there wasn't much (American that is) that would run with a 5.0 Mustang. Heck, I don't think that Mopar was even in the game then. Are any of you old enough to remember the SVO Mustang?

There are so many changes that are going on today, it will be very interesting to see what Ford does.

Do you remember the Merkur XR4TI and the Scorpio?

[wytstang]

Originally Posted by Dylan06SS

1hp p/cubic inch in a 281 < the LS2 (364 cubic inches putting out 400hp)

Never said Chevy didn't match the 1 hp per cubic inch, you said Ford couldn't make power without a blower and were "out the game". When in fact Ford went to an even smaller motor and made more power and reached the 1h/1cu.

The ratio of HP to cubes is something GM will always win... ford uses blowers to make power. In recent memory when has anything ford put out stacked up to its GM couterpart without the help of a blower??

Maybe you missed the 80's when the 5.0's were a huge force to reckon with at the track. The fact is bolt-on 5.0 were taking down 350 maros at the track often. You seem to be stuck on blowers and hp/tq numbers and forgetting about power the weight ratio which is were the stang made up for the lack of power.

Admitting my bowtie bias here, but compare the past few generations of F-Body's (maros, and trans ams) to the equivalent on the blue oval side (mustang GT/Cobra) All of the high performance ford platforms have had to throw a huffer on top of their anemic rod throwing engines to keep up with the power the GM platforms are putting out NA!!

Stock for stock (assuming both drivers have equal skills) Chevy will take the win. BTW Ford motors never had much problems throwing rods (5.0 & 4.6), they had/have problems killing tranny. Just as bad as Chevys can't keep a rear end from letting go.

****... even at the upper eschelon if we compare the supercar from each side... the GT500 vs. the Z06 Vette... even there the ford guys had to throw a blower on top and still get beat down by the NA vette.

GT500 was a let down *to me* from the get go, they should have let the SVT crew design/build it not Carol Shelby imho. BTW the GT500 is still a mustang so comparing it to a vette is dumb. The vette has always been in a different category then the pony cars especially when it has 7.0 vs 5.4 @8 psi (427 ci vs 330ci). A better comparison would by the Ford GT still using a blown 5.4 but it's overall platform is more even then the other comparison.

I know its going to be hard to admit as a ford fan, but you have to concede that GM has PERFECTED the pushrod V8 over the last few decades to a point that Ford or Crystler can't ever hope to catch up... the LSx based platform is bar none the single greatest and most versatile push rod V8 ever developed and it just keeps getting better.

Negative I'm not brand loyal so I don't have to admit a thing lol. Chevy didn't perfect the push rod v8, they perfected the 350 the same way Ford perfected the 302 (and F-150; Chevy pick up {that Ford out sell}).

Thats not to entirely discredit fords offerings... the mustang is a nice car... not my cup of tea, but they're damn respectable and put down insane power with small things like pully swaps, etc. My point was that ford has relied so heavily on FI of late that I don't think they could put out a high HP vehicle without a SCr on it. I myself have always just preferred a stronger platform to build on... making power on the motor is always better IMO... still leaves the door open for adding FI later to really take it to the next level.

+1; Like I mentioned I'm not brand loyal I do prefer Fords interior over Chevys 90% of the time. I like the S10/Colorado over the Ranger but I still hate the interiors, they are just to plain and cheap looking (more so then Fords).

[Dylan06SS]

well said... I should have clarified on the GT500 reference.. I meant the GT (not mustang) halo car. SVT would've done a much better job on that car, it is a major let down for car fans in general I think. For the price you're not getting world class performance, just a cool looking nostalgia design and some uniqueness. I'd hate to have paid for that thing what some people did only to get my *** handed to me by a guy rolling a Z06 for roughly half the price.

I agree that the 5.0 stangs were beasts, more recently I think Ford has lost its way... I just don't think the last few generations of mustangs have compared well to their competition. With the death of the Fbodies on GM's side it seems Ford got lazy and didn't push the envelope. Now with the Camaro coming back and being pushed by an LS2 (or LS3 hopefully) that should reignite the fire under Fords ***.

I will disagree with the motors. I don't think there is a more widely accepted, loved, and versitile platform than the GM LSx. Pound for pound it is the BEST pushrod engine to come from any manufacture. Sure there are those big "halo" offerings from Dodge and Ford, but the LSx platform across the board has more aftermarket support, more factory support, and more fan base than anything from the other 2. Its the reason the LS1/LS2 continue to dominate the rod and custom scene, and why its repeatedly the choice for weekend warrior type racers. The GM backed LSx shootout recnetly is a perfect showcase of how great the motor is.

In any event I guess we should all just be proud of what the US manufactures can turn out when properly motivated. The muscle wars may slowly be grinding to an end, but they sure are fun regardless of what side you're on.