To Catch a Predator.

jsatek · 01-04-08, 06:13

I sometimes watch Chris Hansen’s “To Catch a Predator” series on NBC. As a result, I truly believe if Perverted Justice set up 500 of its decoys in each state to lure in these disgusting predators, their work would never be finished. I completely agree that what they are doing is good and needed in the current society we live in, but I question the literal legality of it all. I am not a layer, so I don’t know.

What I see from the show is a sick and demented Kentucky savage walking into a house to corrupt a child. But, there is no child at the house. In reality, the sick and demented savage never actually communicated in any way to a child, the decoys are all over 18 years of age. The sick and demented savage also has not actually touched a child. Of course this is only 1 case, I’m sure these savages talk to hundreds of other actual children, but those aren’t the cases that are in the courts after the show.

So my question is, besides being a total waste of human flesh, what is the crime that these people are charged with?
1. They haven’t communicated in any way with and actual child in this case.
2. They haven’t touched an actual child in this case.
Are there laws broken that aren’t spoken about on the show?
Do these guys just go to jail for the night and walk away if they are wise and plead not-guilty and keep their mouths shut and wait for a lawyer? Do they plead that they are insane or were "role playing" so they can get off?

I have heard of such defenses in traffic court like “There were no lights on the cop car parked on the side of the highway when I was allegedly clocked traveling 80 mph in the 55mph at 10pm. I asked the officer to note it in his supporting deposition. That is entrapment and I am not guilty”. (Its true, I was in traffic court and the defendant beat the hell out of the cop’s pre-canned court story. The judge gave up on it and gave it to the D/A, they guy got no ticket)
The all time famous, “Are you a cop?” when conducting a drug deal. I don’t know what validity this one has, I don’t do drug deals. But if you are a smart criminal and this is true, there is no way you should get caught by an under cover, ever.

Danase · 01-04-08, 06:49

They are charged with the intent.

It like when cops pretend to be hookers or drug dealers/buyer. The criminal never actually gave moeny to a hooker or drug dealer you know?

It depends on the court but a lot of those guys get close to a nickle in prison, plus probation, plus a lifetime of being on a sex offenders list.

BigChevMan · 01-04-08, 06:50

To me it reminds me of Minority Report and the Pre-Crime stuff. There is intent if they travel some distance to the location. I still don't see how someone can be charged for a crime they didn't commit. It's like attempted speeding. I wanted to go over 65, but my damn car wouldn't let me!

jsatek · 01-04-08, 06:57

Ahh, so a lesser charge on a greater crime. The DA has to be pissed that these go this way.

Intent is a tough thing to prove, like bigchevman wrote. I guess with an hour of video and a 45 page chat transcript, it get a little easier....

Danase · 01-04-08, 07:13

It's not too hard to prove when they have chat logs, pics, and the retards show up to the house filled with cameras.

Like you said. I'm all for it. I would rather these guys get caught before doing anything. I mean think about terrorist. Would you rather them get caught with plans and explosives or get caught after a 50 story building crashes down. You would hope they could get locked up before hand you know?

themightytimmah · 01-04-08, 07:27

I think it's pretty shady - it seems like nowadays it's not just enough to *catch* criminals, we have to create them too. Look at the NY subway wallet stings or any of the drug/prostitution stings out there - they may be following the letter of entrapment laws, but they're flaunting the spirit.

Unfortunately that's whats happened to policing lately, at least in my neighborhood. They write tickets and bust pot smokers like it's going out of style, but heaven forbid you get robbed or raped - they've got a conviction rate in the single digits. I guess that's just a reflection of society in general - most everyone I know is picking the low-hanging fruit these days.

Setec Astronomy · 01-04-08, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by themightytimmah

I guess that's just a reflection of society in general - most everyone I know is picking the low-hanging fruit these days.

Amen, brother. I have been a GM guy since forever, but I have no sympathy for them or the other Big 2 whose pickup sales are way off as reported today in the NY Times. All those years when gas was cheap and the executives were racking up huge bonuses...they had no idea that oil prices could go up? Sure they did, but instead of doing research and being all ready with smaller/hybrid/high-mileage designs and technologies, they decimated R&D and pocketed the money, and now they're crying about the CAFE being raised. Even with a 9/11 Mideast wakeup call, they were slow on the draw.

Sure, Toyota is selling big trucks, but they already have a second-gen hybrid on the market...for years. Forget about Honda, their fleet average is the highest, I think. What great management from those MBA CEO's...I bet some of them even have MBA's from Harvard like W.

Sorry for the hijack.

Surfer · 01-04-08, 08:03

Sadly if I remember I don't think anybody was charged, something to the effect that you mentioned where the court said the police should have been the main ones involved not NBC which they said NBC caused "entrapment", so the people taken into custody were released with no charges, was on the news awhile back....but aren't they still doing the setup?

Crazier ones were when they would catch the same guy for the 2nd or 3rd time, and nothing happened, since they kept getting caught. One of them was caught like 5 days later after being arrested the 1st time.

BigJimZ28 · 01-04-08, 08:05

I think if they show up
they should just just get a 9MM to the head

that would make for some good TV or atleast a better deterant

jsatek · 01-04-08, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJimZ28

I think if they show up
they should just just get a 9MM to the head

that would make for some good TV or atleast a better deterant

Thats a Pay-Per-View event. Sign me up. But first they need to have a pyrotechnics crew waiting outside fo the offenders home waiting to torch it. They can broadcast it in a split screen. Just as the bullet hits the skull, the house goes up in flames.

BlackElantraGT · 01-04-08, 08:09

While I find the show to be hilarious, I feel they go too far with painting these guys to be the scummiest of scumbags and basically ruining their lives on national television without thinking about the consequences they bring upon others just for NBC to have "good tv". My wife and I used to watch it but once you've seen one, you've seen them all. By nature, most of us wouldn't react any different if we were put in their same situation. You have to remember this is TV and the more exaggerated it is, the better. For example, do these guys really needed to be tackled down once they leave the house? A simple "Put your hands in the air!" would suffice. I've seen criminals lead police in hour-long chases and taken down with more ease and dignity than these guys.

What will NBC come up with next? "To Catch a Cheating Husband"? All men are born dogs. If you gave a man the idea that he'd be having consented sex with a hot woman without anyone else's knowledge, I'm willing to bet that more than 9 out of 10 guys will fail that test. Even with the possibility that he'd get caught, many guys would still take that risk to sacrifice marriage, family, money, job, etc. Most guys think with the wrong head. Maybe as we're older and less blood flows to the head down below, that allows us to think more clearly but by nature we are all pre-programmed to spread our seeds.

We are no different than most other animals, but society places laws that says we can't have multiple wives or have sex with a minor (who's reached sexual reproduction age). I'm not saying we should ban these laws, but IMO there are much worse criminal offenses someone can commit. The consequences these guys face are much worse than just wearing a scarlet letter. And what's up with being a sexual offender forever? If someone has paid their dues to society and over time has shown to not be a repeat offender, why can't they be considered as reformed?

bert31 · 01-04-08, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Amen, brother. I have been a GM guy since forever, but I have no sympathy for them or the other Big 2 whose pickup sales are way off as reported today in the NY Times. All those years when gas was cheap and the executives were racking up huge bonuses...they had no idea that oil prices could go up? Sure they did, but instead of doing research and being all ready with smaller/hybrid/high-mileage designs and technologies, they decimated R&D and pocketed the money, and now they're crying about the CAFE being raised. Even with a 9/11 Mideast wakeup call, they were slow on the draw.

Sure, Toyota is selling big trucks, but they already have a second-gen hybrid on the market...for years. Forget about Honda, their fleet average is the highest, I think. What great management from those MBA CEO's...I bet some of them even have MBA's from Harvard like W.

Sorry for the hijack.

Without a crystal ball, I don't think anyone knew the price of a barrel of oil would go up as much as it has. Just because you work in the auto industry does not neccessarily mean you can predict the oil industry. Heck, I would be suprised if the Oil Mininster in Saudi Arabia (or whatever his title is) knew ten years ago that a barrel of oil would pass $100 in Dec 2007. Even he didn't know China and India's demand for energy would grow like it has over the past decade. China has already passed up Japan as the second largest user of oil in the world. If they can get out of their recession, the may pass up the US as the largest. 1.1 billion people use a lot of energy. India is passing up many European countries and is approaching Japan in its oil usage.

Because it costs more for American manufactures to make a car than the Japanese due to higher labor costs, I would guess the American manufactures were thinking, "Let's allow Toyota and Honda to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on research and design and we will learn from THEIR mistakes and save in the long run when we start making fuel efficient cars in 5-10 years when they catch on to the American public without all the R&D overhead". Unfortunately for American automakers, they are catching on faster than they predicted due to the price of a barrel of oil increasing so fast and Toyota and Honda have the market cornered pretty well. The concept of letting your competitor spend money developing a new concept and you learning from them on the cheap is nothing new. Andersen Windows was such a propenent of it they (indirectly) put it in a slogan they used not to long ago: "Andersen Windows, never the first but always the best". Sometimes the strategy works, sometimes it doesn't.