This post does not refer to the HD polish because I have not tried this product.
It sounds like this is going to be a well-received and successful line of detailing formulations.
This is great for all detailers that end up using it!
I would like to address "fillers" versus "swelling" because these topics have been discussed before.
It is odd that some guys believe that M105 and M205 are designed with ingredients that fill paint, yet other guys have not seen this happen.
Heck- maybe a guy believes that the product is not "designed" to fill, but it does anyway.
Is one guy "better" at applying these products than the other? I doubt it.
Is one guy a "better" paint polisher? Certainly one could be better than the other, but in reference to both of these questions... does the paint know the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bufferbarry
...Now in comparison to m95, m105, m205, your product is claimed not to have fillers. I think we all know at this point that meg's all have fillers....
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Sorry Barry, I will
disagree with your point here.
There are NO ingredients in the products you have listed that were designed to fill or hide imperfections.
Knowing this, I
will say that a lot of different
things CAN cause
SWELLING of the paint, and swelling is sometimes confused as
FILLING.
My friend Jason Rose has even written about
filling in this post (he was the lead guy on the development of the products you listed):
Ipa 105/205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rose
New to this forum...hope it's OK I chime in?
post #81
Filling of defects...the topic has two facets. One has to do with the realities of any product application, and the other has to do with the product itself.
1) I believe on the black limo you experienced filling. I'm not alarmed nor surprised by this. Happens all the time...to you...to me...and to others who polish cars. Many applications of a compound, polish, or wax can result in filling...even if the product was not intended to fill at all. Any product can do it. You can take a polish and apply a drop on the paint of 10 cars, smash each drop down to a flat even layer of polish, and then wait until dry. When you wipe the polish residue off each car...what will you find? You will find 2-3 cars have no difference from the surrounding paint. 3-5 cars will have darkening of color and hidden defects on that spot, and the rest may have significant darkening of color and major hiding of defects. This will happen with a wide variety of products including compounds, polishes, and waxes.
Now...you have taken the variable of machine or hand application out of the equation. And the result was filling and not filling...same product, but spread out over 10 different paints. With an IPA wipe down, most of the spots on the 10 cars reverted to their same look as the untreated paint. When you add in the variable of machine application on those same 10 cars...you will also expreience a spread of filling and non-filling results over the 10 cars...same product. Every product, any brand, has the potential for hiding defects. Which is why some kind of IPA or glass cleaner wipe down is recommended on a spot check bases before waxing a car. So why is it that the same product can result in filling on some cars and not on others? It's a combination of variables that will make your head spin.
2) Some products fill because they were designed to do so. All manufacturers of car care products know exactly what ingredients they need to put in a product to get it to hide paint defects. It's actually basic chemistry and not very difficult to create a product intended to hide. Some ingredients can actually be described as durable fillers, and hide defects more robustly than others. As a product developer, detail enthusiast, and long time detailer myself...I don't like any filling properties in a compound or subsequent polish. These are two polishing steps I hope to have "what you see is what you get" results. Waxing can hide defects, I'm OK with that. We, Meguiar's that is, believe that most professional detailers feel the same way. Which is why you will not find the ingredients of M105 or M205 to include intentional fillers.
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In discussions with Jason, he has mentioned measuring swelling of the paint simply by pulling a vehicle out of a shady garage. Certainly, the panels expand and contract due to heat (although nobody has proven that the sunlight
has or
has nothing to do with swelling!)- the primer and paint are obviously attached to the panels, so these films also change shape in tandem with the panel.
I can recall posting that "M105 does not swell paint". Jason reminded me that "...You shouldn't write that because there is no magical solution in M105 that STOPS paint from swelling- if exposure to the sun can cause paint to swell, how can you say that M105 does not swell paint?!" A VERY good point, indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bufferbarry
Also bryan try using a prep solvent like dupont instead of your noramal IPA.
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In addition, specific solvents can swell paint specific paint types (this does not relate to cars... but water is technically a solvent, and it can swell latex house paint). This is why it has been mentioned that very strong solutions of IPA can swell paint (a controversial statement, I know... I know). That being said, remember that pre-paint wipe down solvents can also swell paint. As previously posted a while back on this thread (post #58):
A new perspective on paint defect return (interesting)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
Yes, there's some pretty capable solvents out there.
For lack of a better term 'softening' of paint is the only word that can convey what I've experienced.
Thank you for calling me to the mat on my wording-
I just can't come up with an official term used in the body shop realm that identifies the reaction.
Here's one reputable pre clean solvent and their description of what it does:
Product Information - 900 PRE-KLEANO
Application Properties / Characteristics
R-M 900 Pre-Kleano is a silicone, wax, grease, tar and road-oil dissolving solvent.
900 Pre-Kleano will;
- remove contamination from existing paint films,
- slightly penetrate existing paint for good adhesion of subsequent coats,
- clean sanded OEM finishes for repainting.
I just checked a few MSDS sheets online, and some of the products used in wax & grease remover, adhesion remover, solvent-based surface cleaner, (and the like) are:
propane, mineral spirits, stoddart solvent, naptha, xylene,toluene, benzene.
Used properly, I doubt there's long term-effect.
Used on a regularly to 'strip' paint surface of LSP's (or as outlined in ABQDetailer's inquiry)?
It could feasibly dry/alter elasticity of the paint surface, accomlishing exactly what we're trying to avoid- Paint degradation. |
I am simple guy. In the "old" days, I always used a soap and water solution to rinse away remnants of polishing oils and residue to check my paint.
The purpose was primarily to remove the gritty abrasives from the cracks and crevices of the paint.
And six or seven wash jobs later... my polishing was complete.
Now that these comparatively "harsh" abrasives have been replaced with smaller and more refined materials, I use a glass cleaner containing alcohol to test polish a panel or two.
Once I have confidence in the buffing procedure, I typically polish the car in complete steps, avoiding the use of spray-on liquids unless needed.
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