UAW refuses pay cut

[jfelbab]

The UAW rejected moving concessions that were scheduled to go into effect in 2011 back to 2010. They rejected this deal for one stinking year. The lower starting salary mentioned earlier was to go into effect in 2011, BTW. Congress wanted some stake in this from the UAW as well as the company and the UAW refused to budge.

I pin this failure on UAW inflexibility. This just changed my opinion that bankruptcy is now the ONLY viable option.

[Danase]

Originally Posted by Picus

I agree. There is too much talk about lazy union workers. Most of the people here don't even have a choice, you have to join the union. I don't see how that instantly turns them lazy. The people I worked with as a teenager sure weren't.

I will say this, though. A lot of retired auto workers here still make 80%+ of their pay while retired, which is just crazy. I know it's a tough job, but that right there is a big part of why domestics are losing $2k a car.

Agreed.

And for some reason it's ok for us to charge $30-$50+ an hour to detail a car? How many of you have complained when people tried to get you done on your prices or how many of you refuse to budge on pricing?

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by Slickery

Good, why should the American tax payer sacrifice and the overpaid workers shouldn't? When they are jobless, I bet they wished they would have made a different choice.

Originally Posted by CARWAX

Funny how congress did not insist on anyone from the banks or mortgage industry accept ANY paycuts at all! Hmmmm.

Yeah, what an incredible double standard.

Originally Posted by Danase

I also love how people consider ALL union workers lazy or slackers. I'll guarantee most of those people are online at work instead of doing actual work. I just don't understand how people can never of set foot in a factory but be experts about it.

Yeah, these days the amount of "entitlement" to phone, text, and email while AT WORK is absolutely incredible. My mother was in the ER (ultimately wound up having emergency surgery) and the nurse who was hooking up the IV stopped to take a call on her cell phone...THE ER NURSE!!! Really amazing...the people who are at work posting on the internet and complaining about lazy production line workers...

[bert31]

Originally Posted by howareb

I understand being competitve. With America entering the global market, the american worker got the short end of the stick. Our way of life in this country, which has been well established for many years, was well above those of poorer nations. By entering the global market we are essentially lowering the lifestyle of the American worker, which is parlty why our economy is slowly dwindling.

I agree that the workers should have a competitve pay grade for what the market calls for. However when you have excutives flying to DC in a corporate jet asking for handouts, I would say that it is time to cut the executives. That alone will put millions back into the company. Unions are not always right, but they are there and where create to protect the workers from tactics such as this. I was surprised about this outcome, but it is only right to question it. By the big three collapsing, more than the workers are going to suffer, so I think this move was to try to weaken the UAW and to blame them for the congressional loans not being recieved b the big 3.

The workers pay is only but a small part of the problem with the big three. Their lack of focus and direction towards thier markets is where their problem is.

In fairness to management, the three CEO's agreed to take compensation of only $1 per year.

I am not so much sure it is the current union workers that are making it so difficult for the the Big Three, rather the tens of thousands of retired workers who are receiving post retirement benefits. I believe one of the news stations mentioned that the retirement benefits make up about $2000 of the cost for every car GM makes. For Toyota and Honda the amount was approx $450. Now I haven't confirmed these numbers but they do make sense.

[Danase]

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Yeah, what an incredible double standard.



Yeah, these days the amount of "entitlement" to phone, text, and email while AT WORK is absolutely incredible. My mother was in the ER (ultimately wound up having emergency surgery) and the nurse who was hooking up the IV stopped to take a call on her cell phone...THE ER NURSE!!! Really amazing...the people who are at work posting on the internet and complaining about lazy production line workers...

Amen to that. I hate sitting at a desk or in front of a computer all day but I don't think I'd trade that for a line job ever again.

[Scottwax]

They didn't learn much from Safeway in Texas did they? Union demands led to Safeway shutting down operation in Texas many years ago. Guess how many Safeways there are now in Texas? That's right, still zero.

[Scottwax]

Originally Posted by Danase

Agreed.

And for some reason it's ok for us to charge $30-$50+ an hour to detail a car? How many of you have complained when people tried to get you done on your prices or how many of you refuse to budge on pricing?

Guess how much I got while I was out after my surgery and before starting back working yesterday? Guess how much of my total health insurance cost I pay. Guess how much vacation pay I get each year? Guess how much is being kicked into my retirement by an employer?

What I make per hour is my TOTAL compensation. No vacation, no sick days, no benefits. Nothing, zero, zilch, zip.

[bert31]

Originally Posted by Danase

New UAW workers make $14 an hour, have no pension, and are lucky to see health care after retirement.

Is that accross the country? I thought the Union Rate was adjusted to the cost of living in the area. In other words, the starting salary in Detroit would be higher than the starting salary in Louisville, KY due to the difference in the cost of living.

[themightytimmah]

I can't really blame UAW management - they are elected, and the hardliners who parrot the line of "No Givebacks" would have them out the door in a fraction of a second. It would be nice to see them work out some sort of agreement that included lower compensation in return for a significant equity share for the workers.

One of the problems is the union system as a whole - I've worked in both union and nonunion shops, and the union system is highly inefficient - it hurts the company a hell of a lot more than it helps the workers.

We would always have a couple losers who poisoned the work environment, called out sick 200 days a year, etc, and we could never fire them because the union had too much sway.

[POPPAJ]

Just a few things to concider that seem to have been lost.

1. The loans (not bailout) are only part of what will save a domestic Industry.

2. The industry is more than UAW represented employees of the big(?) three. Concider all those that work in the supplier chain from engineering, tooling, parts, transportation, raw materials, dealerships etc. Further, concider those that work for large and small business that depend on the trickle down from the domestic auto industry. These are the vast majority that depend on this industry, not the UAW members.

3. The management of the big three weren't taken out behind the barn and beaten into submission by Bruno and Otto and told to "sign da' contract" it's called collective bargaining.

4. Did you know that over 3 BILLION of your tax dollars have gone to transplant automakers by way of free land, no taxes, freetraining, etc to build plants in mostly the south from where the Republican Caucus members are from who spoke most loudly against the loans?

We need to look beyond the rehtoric from both sides of this issue and look at the facts before we decide if we want this Industry to fail.

[bert31]

Originally Posted by POPPAJ

Just a few things to concider that seem to have been lost.

1. The loans (not bailout) are only part of what will save a domestic Industry.

2. The industry is more than UAW represented employees of the big(?) three. Concider all those that work in the supplier chain from engineering, tooling, parts, transportation, raw materials, dealerships etc. Further, concider those that work for large and small business that depend on the trickle down from the domestic auto industry. These are the vast majority that depend on this industry, not the UAW members.

Very true.

Originally Posted by POPPAJ

3. The management of the big three weren't taken out behind the barn and beaten into submission by Bruno and Otto and told to "sign da' contract" it's called collective bargaining.

True but the threat of a corporate wide strike will make you submit to signing a contract that otherwise would never sign. Before the 80's when the Japanese cars really started coming in, the automakers didn't mind signing the contracts because they knew the other automakers were signing similar contracts so the playing field was even regardless. However when Toyota, Datsun, Honda, Nissan and others started coming into the country, those old contracts of the past and their repercussions into the future started causing heartburn.

Originally Posted by POPPAJ

4. Did you know that over 3 BILLION of your tax dollars have gone to transplant automakers by way of free land, no taxes, freetraining, etc to build plants in mostly the south from where the Republican Caucus members are from who spoke most loudly against the loans?

The is true with just about all industries. Over the past decade KY gave away a hundreds of acres of land and tax incentives to industries accross the board who were moving to KY or expanding (and hiring) in Kentucky. I assume all states do the same to keep employers in their states.

[PaintPolisher]

Originally Posted by jfelbab

I pin this failure on UAW inflexibility. This just changed my opinion that bankruptcy is now the ONLY viable option.

Just poor decision making and somebody called their bluff.

As Scottwax mentioned check for a Safeway store.

At Eastern Airlines the entire corporation was inflexible and then they could not figure why they went out of business. Well they pouted and pouted [the sky is falling] but the bottom line was closure as many people and support companies were out of work and out of business. Just terrible leadership and poor decision making by many people. So sad.

al