So why is GM going down?

[BigAl3]

Originally Posted by MBenz

Just found this out
Gm has over 12,000 dealerships in the USA, Toyota has 2000.

.....

[longdx]

Originally Posted by Lumadar

Well said.

If only people realized it isn't as simple as "Japanese cars are better." Times are changing, and just like when we saw a paradignm shift away from American quality into Japanese cars, I believe we will see a similar (smaller? same? bigger? Who knows.) shift in the near future.

From a business perspective, it is common knowledge that innovation doesn't come from the number 1 and 2 guys, it comes from the back of the pack...

Exactly, Honda and Toyota (to be fair with a subsidy from the Japanese Government) introduced Hybrids during the early nineties (when gas was inexpensive and plentiful) They essentially brought a unique approach to fuel savings to a marketplace 10 years before the market would readily embrace it. (i.e. early Insights and Prius' were niche vehicles). The US companies decided to play as wait and see approach to see if this technology caught on.

Even before that, Toyota and Honda build vehicles essentially off of 2 platforms(Corolla/Camry and Civic/Accord) and spent years refining and perfecting these platforms. They subscribed to Dr. E. Deming's philosophy of total quality management 40 years before the US companies jumped on board (commonly called Six Sigma). This essentially taught the Japanese to test for quality at every stage of manufacturing.

In order for GM to survive, they need to pare down their brands, simplify operations and have a monumental philosophical change in management. (They Jetpool fiasco during the Congressional hearings for additional funding really represent how out of touch the current CEO's, even if it is only symbolically.) They have the engineering talent.

[salty]

I posted this in another thread. Probably should have been in this one. The link is a good read.

Do i think that they should bail out the auto industry?

Yes, just because of the shear volume of workers and the fallout of them not contributing to the economy. Also if they give 600 billion to over a trillion to the financial sector, the auto industry should also get some help. That being said this should be the last time and may the cards fall where they may. Capitalist economy?


A fairly long read about the workings at GM in 1997 one of the last years they were on top of the Fortune 500. Ten years later can you spot the mistakes? This was just before Wagoner took over from Smith and you know the rest.

GM: TIME TO GET IN GEAR TURNING AROUND THE WORLD'S LARGEST COMPANY HAS BECOME A DECADE-LONG PROJECT. WILL GENERAL MOTORS EVER BE GREAT AGAIN? - April 28, 1997

Also after checking out the past 10 years of the Fortune 500, AIG and JP Morgan top 15 and nice profits.

[rjstaaf]

Personally I think this is the primary reason

[Inzane]

Originally Posted by Boba7523

why is GM going down the drain?

I think a better question would be why the heck has it taken so long?

I won't miss them when they're gone, but the impact on the industry and its employees would be very unfortunate.

[ZaneO]

As we can see, there are a huge number of contributing factors. IMHO, one of the biggest factors (if not THE biggest) is a greedy union.

[MASKDMARVL]

Originally Posted by NCZ13

i think its putting out inferior products compared to what is imported from japan.

Rebadging cars and trucks across there line is also probably wasting alot of money, and contributing to that cash burn.

Just a thought ! What all of us bought a Cobalt SS, Do you have faith in your warrantee, or trade in value ? Me personally am not investing in a falling stock. What gets to me is the top executives flew into DC in Gulfstream jets to ask for money eventually your tax dollars. This reminds me of the billion dollar bailout of our reality banking industry while the top people take trips to the carribean. Someone needs to be held accountable not the middle class working man. I hope GM goes bankrupt, and a foriegn nation takes over. This is going to be a huge disaster to our economy, and the working man. Its a case of GREED. Make a **** product, and market it like a champ.

[ianitrix]

Originally Posted by ZaneO

As we can see, there are a huge number of contributing factors. IMHO, one of the biggest factors (if not THE biggest) is a greedy union.

God ZaneO you are retarded. Blame the union for this, while the CEO is making millions as a salary and flying on his private jet??
Give your head a shake, seems to me your jealous of them..

[jdoria]

Check bloomberg, wsj, the street, reuters, or money.com for the facts.

Today's comparison in the WSJ was the average hourly labor cost to the German/Japanese manufacturers doing business in right-to-work states.

I think GM is going to sink in front of Congress this week, the initial approach to the "recovery plan" just sat wrong with all. What is it? Today's gain of $1 was artificially driven by Equities desks for short profits, has already been deleted and lowered by 12.4% in after hours trading.

Would anyone like a Ford Corvette with a 351 Windsor?

[ramtough]

Union is part of the problem. Somebody making $28 to$30 an hr. for for screwing in a bolt or gluing weatherstipping on is rediculouis. The union made GM,DODGE AND FORD charge $30,000 to $40,000 for a car that should cost $15,,000 to $ 20,000.

[MASKDMARVL]

Originally Posted by jsatek

Check bloomberg, wsj, the street, reuters, or money.com for the facts.

Today's comparison in the WSJ was the average hourly labor cost to the German/Japanese manufacturers doing business in right-to-work states.

I think GM is going to sink in front of Congress this week, the initial approach to the "recovery plan" just sat wrong with all. What is it? Today's gain of $1 was artificially driven by Equities desks for short profits, has already been deleted and lowered by 12.4% in after hours trading.

Would anyone like a Ford Corvette with a 351 Windsor?

Nope . Still taking the 7.0 505HP twin turbos and TCS OFF.

[jdoria]

Originally Posted by MBenz

Just found this out
Gm has over 12,000 dealerships in the USA, Toyota has 2000.

In addition, you can buy a GM dealership via their minority program for almost NOTHING out of your pocket!!!

To buy a Toyota store, its much easier, you only need to be a millionaire.