Republican or Democrat?

[Lumadar]

Originally Posted by Slickery

How could Republicans even remain loyal to the Party considering the principals of the Republican Party have long since been destroyed by these people calling themselves Republicans!

Wait a minute...you are saying that since some people that call themselves Republicans did things that were not popular and potentially hurt the party as a whole, then Republicans should give up their party and allow those evil-doers to win?

Wait, of course you are...that sounds remarkably similar to the democrats' national defense and foreign policies , game plan for terrorism, as well as crime and law ideologies: let the minorities ruin it for the majorities. Let's let a few people dictate how MANY people can live their lives so "everyone" can be happy....(Don't get me started on how hypocritical and broken that "logic" is)

No thanks!

[Bunky]

Originally Posted by GBSLambo

Republican even though I don't like Bush.

Why? because the last thing we need is Grasshoppers running our country.

The Ant and the Grasshopper

CLASSIC VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his
house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's
a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the
ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he
dies out in the cold. MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!

This is not how the modern version goes.

It looks like the government just bailed out the "hard working" ant ceo's.

[User Name]

^ Bingo!!!

My best friend is VP at Goldman Sachs here in NYC and he is actually shocked, amazed and astonished at the government (ie: taxpayer) bailout of these banks. Who's bailing out Mr. 9-5 who is struggling to make his or her mortgage payments.

Here's the reality folks... I'm not a Dem or a Republican but if simple taxes were the only relevant question, I'd probably ONLY vote Republican but I see a lot of inequity in our system which truly favors the rich (including people like me - not saying I'm rich, but I have access to certain information that most regular people do not).

For example... section 1031 of the tax code is a section often used by the wealthy to LEGALLY avoid paying any capital gains taxes. Most lawyers I know, don't even fully understand how to do it, but it is quite ingenious and favors the wealthy by a mile. A crude example.

Joe Millionaire own 5 properties. Each is worth $20 million. He bought each for $1 million. If he sold them, he'd have a "taxable gain" of $19 million. However, he wants to keep his wealth in the family so he does what is called a "1031 exchange" or a "like kind exchange". He sells all 5 propertes for $100 million and re-invests the money in 10 new properties, each valued at $10 million. He gets a pass on capital gains tax.

Next, he moves to Bahamas (a tax haven) and lives there for 6 months + a day. Thereafter he comes and goes to the US as he wishes. For tax purposes, he is no longer a resident of the US and not subject to our estate taxes.

He dies. No estate taxes. His two kids get the 10 properties via his will.

At the time they get them, the INHERIT the value as $10 million per property. They sell them the next day ($50 million each) and they don't pay ONE PENNY in capital gains tax, because they have realized NO GAIN.

So, Mr. Joe Millionaire should have paid nearly $20 million in capital gains tax, but he paid 0 (according to 2010 tax figures).

Now, how many "ordinary Joes" have that ability?

(Although this is a very basic and crude example, I had created a similar arrangement for a client recently and it is 100% legal).

PS - moral of the story... in EVERY other "western democracy" they tax "world wide income" regardless of where you live. They look to the "spirit" of what you're doing, if not the "letter". It is my (professional) opinion that we create these loopholes intentionally to help the rich.

Having said that, I would probably do the same thing (and will one day if I am able), but it doesn't mean the system isn't broken. I'll just use the tools the government has given me, I just think they floor should be even for us all.

To me, this is the folly of the middle class Republican voter. Generally speaking that group of people are responsible, hard working Americans that really don't realize how they are being duped. My 2 cents anyway.

[Eliot Ness]

Originally Posted by Devilsown

NOPE! Have fun waiting in line if we get health care for everyone..............

It's more like free access to waiting in line for a procedure.

I find it rather odd that a Canadian is urging us to vote for Obama . I too have had to go to a hospital while in Canada and it isn't something I'd want to do again. I read about US citizens going to Canada for prescription meds but if the Canadian health care system is so great why do we have so many coming here for actual medical treatment? Here is just one example: "More than 400 Canadians in the full throes of a heart attack or other cardiac emergency have been sent to the United States because no hospital can provide the lifesaving care they require here."

globeandmail.com: Why Ontario keeps sending patients south

As imperfect as our health care system is I'll take it over any government run system.

[Picus]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

Interesting thing I've noticed (and I could be wrong) is that the US tends to have more swing voters or voters who vote on issues than in Canada.

I don't think that's true, but like you, I could be wrong. The way our multiple party system works lends itself better to swing voters. Realistically in the U.S you vote for one party or the other, or your vote kind of doesn't matter - so it tends to be pretty partisan (ime).

Oh, and fwiw, I think universal health care is like gay marriage; an issue that gets talked about a lot but one that won't change much no matter who gets elected. In short, it's kind of a non-issue (not from a social perspective, but from this elections perspective). Better to talk about economic and foreign policy & most importantly the justice system, imo - those are the things that change when a new president comes into office.

[Setec Astronomy]

User Name hit it on the head...perhaps those of us who live here in the NYC metro area have a little different perspective on these things than the rest of the country. I don't begrudge Bill Gates or Steve Jobs their billions, they are self-made men, in the mold of Henry Ford or others who spawned whole industries, as Scott noted. I think the "CEO's" that some of you pro detailers encounter are likely self-made men, or ethical, honorable ones...not the ones who are getting bailed out now...maybe this will clear up the difference: CEOs Enjoy New Salary Security - Economics Column - John Cassidy - Portfolio.com (make sure to look at the second and third pages)

[rjstaaf]

Originally Posted by Picus

I don't think that's true, but like you, I could be wrong. The way our multiple party system works lends itself better to swing voters. Realistically in the U.S you vote for one party or the other, or your vote kind of doesn't matter - so it tends to be pretty partisan (ime).

I would refine that a little bit, you vote for one party or the other or you just plain don't vote and the third option FAR exceeds the other two sadly. The problem in this country IS the two party system, neither party really reflects the majority of Americans and more often than not I think most people chose who they think is the lesser of two evils rather than actually vote on issues...

[dalethompson]

As a Canadian living in Ontario (Toronto), the story quoted isn't entirely accurate. Patients are being sent to American hospitals due to waiting lists for specific procedures when a specialist can't be obtained. 400 patients out of Ontario is a relatively small amount, especially when you consider that Toronto alone is 3+ million people. The article kinda contradicts itself too... it doesn't factor in that specialists are booked months in advance for heart surgery. So when it suggests Ontario has to send patients to the U.S. because of inadequate care, it's suggesting Ontario hospitals can't meet the demand of patients. Not so, it's meeting the demands of scheduled procedures, not emergency ones. Besides, the Ontario government is picking up the tab for these procedures 100%.

Living with a health care system that is provided to all citizens is challenging and not without it's criticism too. Yes, it's free but not in every sense of the word. I pay 30% tax (21% federal, 9% provincial) every work week and then another 14% in tax when I purchase something that's taxable. So, we all pay into the system that's supposedly "free".

The healthcare system in Ontario (I can't speak for the other provinces since I haven't lived in them) is strained at best from what I've seen. It faces challenges with money, long hours worked by healthcare professionals, delays and long waiting lines. It's not perfect by any means and nor was it ever touted as perfect either. It's like any other public or private run business... good in some ways, bad in others.

I've personally waited 3-4 hours in the emergency ward for things like a throat infection or bronchitis which wasn't fun at all. However, I got treated right away for my broken leg because of the urgency of the injury. There are waiting lines at any hospital (just watch ER or any other medical show) and Ontario hospitals are no different. I'm not going to lie and say that it was fun waiting but I understand too. At the end of the day, I got taken care by competent doctors and paid no extra fees.

I think people's take on universal healthcare is slightly miscued. It's not free, it's funded by every taxpayer. It's not a perfect system but it works, even if it's patchworked and seemingly falling apart. It's certainly not the system we envisioned years ago but, then again, what is? All I know is that hospital care is here for me when I need it and I will be taken care of when it counts the most.

Besides, what's the alternative? I watched Sicko and was appalled by what I saw. When the guy had to decide which finger(s) to get reattached, I kept thinking of how that would never even be an issue here in Canada. Not only would all his digits get reattached (if possible), he'd get a regular check-up, post-operation examination and rehab all included for no extra fees.

Still think waiting in line is such a bad thing?

Oh yeah, sorry, about the original thread: I really, really, really hope that Americans see what the rest of the world sees in the fact that John McCain and Sarah Palin would be the absolute wrong choice to elect as the next leaders of the U.S. John McCain may not even survive his first term and do you really want an anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-stem cell research, ultra extreme conservative yet inexperienced person running your country. No offense, this would be a big step down from George W. Bush and that's putting it mildly. It actually scares some Canadians (including myself) having our neighbours even contemplate electing such an inexperienced person to such a powerful position... one who doesn't even grasp foreign (including Canadian) politics. In the reference to why someone cares if Canadians want Obama elected, it's because we believe it's in everyone's vested interest to have the best person elected for the job of President. That person, in a lot of Canadian's eyes, is Barack Obama.

[Scottwax]

Definitely agree with USER NAME about the bailouts. Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for someone's crappy business practices? If my business goes under due to mismanagement I'm not getting bailed out.

[NSXTASY]

Its capitalism, not socialism. Protecting the minority of the oppulent from the majority.
Keep proportionality in mind, the few account for the majority of the tax revenue. Look around, your tax dollars provided little of that.
If you believe the republican v democrat allegiance makes a difference, you've missed the point.

[Eliot Ness]

Originally Posted by dalethompson

As a Canadian living in Ontario (Toronto), the story quoted isn't entirely accurate. Patients are being sent to American hospitals due to waiting lists for specific procedures when a specialist can't be obtained. 400 patients out of Ontario is a relatively small amount, especially when you consider that Toronto alone is 3+ million people. The article kinda contradicts itself too... it doesn't factor in that specialists are booked months in advance for heart surgery. So when it suggests Ontario has to send patients to the U.S. because of inadequate care, it's suggesting Ontario hospitals can't meet the demand of patients. Not so, it's meeting the demands of scheduled procedures, not emergency ones.............

Talk about a contradiction. Everything is just fine and dandy as long as you have your tests or procedure scheduled out months in advance? So your health care system doesn't take into account that there will be emergency procedures that will need to be taken care of? Yep, I'll stick with the health care system we currently have, flaws and all, thank you.

Originally Posted by dalethompson

.............Oh yeah, sorry, about the original thread: I really, really, really hope that Americans see what the rest of the world sees in the fact that John McCain and Sarah Palin would be the absolute wrong choice to elect as the next leaders of the U.S. .................

And Obama is the better alternative? Guess I'll just have to politely, but strongly, disagree on that.

[jfelbab]

Originally Posted by bert31

...To quote Thomas Jefferson, "A government that provides all your needs can also take it away" That may be paraphrasing but close enough. Government dependence is not a good thing.

This may be the quote you were referring to.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

Here are a few more axioms you might find humorous.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." -Winston Churchill

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free!" - P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

"In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other." -Voltaire (1764)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." -Mark Twain (1866 )

"Talk is cheap...except when Congress does it." -Unknown

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal: a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." -Ronald Reagan

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." -Frederic Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan (1986)

"I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." -Winston Churchill

"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." -G. Gordon Liddy