Republican or Democrat?

[bert31]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

The USA is the only wealthy country in the whole world without universal health care, last I checked.

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In response to Universal Healthcare, Rudi Giuliani made the comment that people have to work for some things in life. To some degree I see where he is coming but the problem there is what about the children of those who choose not to work for it? That is why I believe in something like universal healthcare for those under 18 and if in college or trade school, under 24 (but with high deductibles/copays to prevent abuse) because there is really nothing those that young can do to improve their situation.

If children are covered, I think more businesses will be willing to give employees insurance because not needing to cover children will make it much cheaper. I would also favor allowing companies to write off 125% of their actual cost of providing insurance to employees. Such a tax policy would make healt insurance coverage more available but keep it still in the private sector not government run.

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by TH0001

I don't think the government's job is provide thier version of equalibrium. I mean we have seen how well that has worked with dozens of failed programs.

In this country, with the access to grants, scholarships, and education, I believe everybody has a shot to work hard and reap the benefits. Want to be "upper class", go to school, and devote everything in your life to being "upper class". Work two, three jobs, save every penny, invest it, keep learning and advancing, you can get there.

What I don't think it fair is when the government steps in and plays Robin Hood. I know a lot of people that have a lot of money, and I know that almost every one of the them have made HUGE sacrafices. Then the government says, "Thanks for sacraficing your life for the money we are now going to give to the people who haven't made those sacrafices"

For example, if I wanted so desprately to be upper-class, I could be. I would have to sacrafice sleep, time, time with my wife, time with my son, etc.. Work a couple jobs, life frugely, and invest my money wisely. In 20 years I will be "rich". But then for 20 years I won't have much of a life.

What isn't fair is when the government decides that somebody else, who has spent twenty years having fun and enjoying life defaults on a morgage that they signed, and they government decides to use my sacraficed time's money to support them.

Or when the lady who have never worked a day in her life and has six kids gets a cut of my hard earned money. That isn't fair. She wouldn't have made the sacrafices...

Just my two cents...

I didn't grow up poor and I believe everyone deserves the same chances I had and not have their economic situation determine their success in life. Once your family is upper class, do you know how easy is it to stay that way? They must be rewarded with tax breaks?

Who would be stealing from you? I think your example is a common scare tactic but not a real life example because I think you would basically earn back all your taxes in services rendered to you.

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by TH0001

I am ignorant to Candian policy, but what isn't income tax extremely high up north?

I wouldn't trade our taxes (not the highest around - UK is higher) and our universal health care for your low taxes and zero health care for all the detailing supplies in the world.

[bert31]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

I didn't grow up poor and I believe everyone deserves the same chances I had and not have their economic situation determine their success in life. Once your family is upper class, do you know how easy is it to stay that way? They must be rewarded with tax breaks? .

In the US I believe the highest earning 5% pay something like 70% of all income taxes. It may be higher, I will have to check. In reality, the middle class pays very little in income taxes, the lower class pay virtually no income taxes. If the government starts providing more services, then EVERYONE should pay for them not just the high earners. Hence why I am against Obama raising taxes again on the wealthiest 5%. Why don't we just encourage the high earners (therefore high tax payers) to leave the US and go to Carribean nations which charge much lower taxes. It is already happening to some degree already. If I am not mistaking, Monaco is a nation full of wealthy people who fled the high tax nations in Europe.

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

Who would be stealing from you? I think your example is a common scare tactic but not a real life example because I think you would basically earn back all your taxes in services rendered to you.

You will never get a very good return on your dollar when you are paying it to the government. Hence why I like small government. I just scares me the thought of the government providing all my needs. To quote Thomas Jefferson, "A government that provides all your needs can also take it away" That may be paraphrasing but close enough. Government dependence is not a good thing.

[Scottwax]

Libertarian leaning Conservative. I want the government out of my life as much as possible.

[Scottwax]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

The USA is the only wealthy country in the whole world without universal health care, last I checked.

Good. Government can't even run public education well. What makes anyone think they'd do any better with health care? And when was the last time the government got involved with anything and costs went down?

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by Scottwax

Good. Government can't even run public education well. What makes anyone think they'd do any better with health care? And when was the last time the government got involved with anything and costs went down?

They seem to do OK up here. There are very, very few private schools so the rich go to the same classroom as everyone else.

I don't see why you guys consider the US government so incompetent?
(actually I do...but maybe they'll do better on these issues with a different administration?)

Why not give Obama a try and see if things head in a better direction?

[autobahnshine]

Ever been to the DMV? That's universal health care right there

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

I didn't grow up poor and I believe everyone deserves the same chances I had and not have their economic situation determine their success in life. Once your family is upper class, do you know how easy is it to stay that way? They must be rewarded with tax breaks?

Who would be stealing from you? I think your example is a common scare tactic but not a real life example because I think you would basically earn back all your taxes in services rendered to you.

Nobody is stealing from me, I am talking about fair...

No scare tatic either, just logical vs. emotional thinking.

My example was very clear, I don't know how to make it clearer. Sacrafice and make more money so the government can redistribute those who haven't... That is how it works correct? The top earners in this country pay the majority of taxes already and that isn't fair on a logical basis. It only becomes fair when emotinal involvment says so.

Taxes should be flat or flatter IMO. The government should provide opportunity for growth and personal achievement, not do it for you. People are not created equally and when you try to raise the bottom up, you end up dragging everybody above them down.

I think this country should reward hard workers and inovators and I agree that it should be easy to start small companies and get education. We have a way to go. What I don't believe in is government hand outs and programs that have been proven to create dependecy vs. bring people that don't want to be up up.

FWIW, in Toronto I broke a finger ice-skating (I grew up in Chicago and know how to skate, fwiw). I went the ER and it was like a 2 day wait... But what do you expect when the government controls it?

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by bert31

I just scares me the thought of the government providing all my needs. To quote Thomas Jefferson, "A government that provides all your needs can also take it away" That may be paraphrasing but close enough. Government dependence is not a good thing.

You know what terrifies me? A multi-national corporation deciding what to do about my medical needs. That terrifies me to death.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

They seem to do OK up here. There are very, very few private schools so the rich go to the same classroom as everyone else.

I don't see why you guys consider the US government so incompetent?
(actually I do...but maybe they'll do better on these issues with a different administration?)

Why not give Obama a try and see if things head in a better direction?

Because he is a socialist and I don't believe in it. Also, you have to admit, it is scary that basically ten years of his life are unacounted for.. Also he has less experience executively then the VP of the other party which he slams for being inexperienced.

I really don't want to give McCain a chance either because he is a flopper then same as John Kerry. And I don't think either Palin or Obama have enough experience to be taken seriously in this election.

I will likely vote McCain but much rather have voted for Ron Paul.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

You know what terrifies me? A multi-national corporation deciding what to do about my medical needs. That terrifies me to death.

^Hasn't been to a public school or a DMV yet