Republican or Democrat?

[dalethompson]

Holden:

I guess I should be more clear... Harper is the best of the worst at this point. Agreed, Layton is great as an opposition leader, not as PM. Dion, hmmmm... he's all over the place at this point. Simply put, he looks terrified at this point on the election trail and is there anything about him that's slightly appealing in the way he carries himself or speaks? I'm still wondering how he even won the Liberal nomination in the first place. If the Liberal party loses any seats in this election, he will be replaced... although, I have a feeling he'll be replaced anyway as they won't get a minority or majority government this time around.

Bert: I'm saying this as a non-biased person only but what I read and see. I'm not for one party or the other really and why would I be anyway, it's not that I can vote or even influence anyone in their choice. I do have to say that Palin's stories and claims haven't really added up or made any sense... is this really someone you want in the White House along with McCain?

[User Name]

Originally Posted by bert31

Not me, if I don't like my health insurance provider, I just go look for a different one. If you don't like what your government provides you can you go find another government provider? Nope, I will take private insurance every time since competition is there.

Having lived under both systems, I don't think you're asking the right question. It's not about competition, but motive.

What *should* the primary motive be in the field of healthcare. If you answer "profit", than what follows is a COMPETITIVE system based on maximizing profits, not patient care.

If you answer "patient care", then I think you have a system run with the paitent in mine first, not second, third or fourth.

I also think *most* Americans fail to understand universal healthcare in its entirety. It really is NO different than the US system, sans the insurance company. Insurers in the US set up "fee schedules" for doctors, as does the government in Canada. In the US, doctors are paid (by in large) by insurance companies, not people. In Canada, they are paid by the government, acting as one big insurance company.

I don't see why the high level of mistrust in the government, when insurance companies have been proven, time and again, to be the least trust worthy of and segment of corporate america.

I'll tell you another FACTUAL difference I have witnessed in both systems.

In Canada, a bureaucrat *almost* NEVER decides what care you will receive. In America, a claims adjuster VERY OFTEN decides what care you receive.

Case in point... about two months ago I injured my lower back working at home. The injury was so severe I ended up in my local emergency room, in a wheel chair, because I could not walk. Ultimately I had an MRI and it showed torn muscle fibers and a slightly bulged lumbar disc, impinging on the spine (that hurts). The result was radiculopathy and local pain. I went to see one of the best Neurosurgeon's in NYC (Stephen Onesti, MD) and a top Orthopedic Surgeon.

It cost me more than $200 with co-pays and they recommended I do 8 weeks of physical therapy before looking at surgical options. I was also on Vicodin for pain.

My insurer (remember I have a PPO not a crummy HMO) only said I need 5 visits to rehab. The docs disagreed. Guess who won that battle? Insurers.

After 5 visits, I felt a bit better, but certainly not 100%. I continued to go to PT on my own dime, figuring I would just sue my insurer. It has now cost me more than $3,000 out of pocket for this injury. My insurance costs 15k per year (for my family). I have Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield's best plan.

I know from experience, this would've NEVER happened to me in Canada. Might I have to have waited for the MRI? Maybe a bit, yes, but NEVER at the expense of my PT.

---------

Next quick example of misinformation. My father (stubborn old goat) was diagnosed (in Canada) as needing quadruple by-pass surgery 10 years ago but he refused, using alternative medicines to "cure" himself instead".

Well, 10 years later he had a small heart attack. That is to say, it was a "warning" that he needed the surgery. It wasn't an emergency (he was stable) but if he didn't get the surgery within a year, he probably would've had "the big one".

I got on the phone (from NYC) to some top Cardiologists and Cardio-Thoracic Surgeons. I a matter of hours, I had my dad see a great Cardiologist, who then referred my father to the number 1 Cardio-Thoracic Surgeon in Toronto (Daniel Bonneau, MD @ St. Mike's hospital for any of the Canucks who might be interested). A week later, my father had the NON-EMERGENT by-pass surgery. What happened to the long lines? The months of waiting? The dying in the hospital hallways?

Don't believe the hype. Insurance companies are protecting their profits at the expense of good and hard working Americans.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by User Name

Don't believe the hype. Insurance companies are protecting their profits at the expense of good and hard working Americans.

I find this verging on hysterically funny that you, who claims (no offense intended, it's just that anyone can say anything on the internet) to be a high-powered NYC tax att'y with wealthy clients is telling the middle-class detailers that they are getting screwed by the current administration, big business and the wealty, while the middle-class detailers are telling us it's government that's going to screw them if the party currently in the White House loses.

(Before we get into further "class" warfare, I believe John McCain has stated that the middle-class ends at $5 million/yr. income, so I feel pretty safe referring to the detailers here as "middle-class".)

[bert31]

Originally Posted by User Name

I don't see why the high level of mistrust in the government

I believe the mistrust in giving too much power to the government stems from the numerous things our federal government has screwed up so far. Our tax code is so complicated most IRS agents don't understand it well enough to do their jobs effectively. Our Social Security program is so screwed up my guess in the Baby Boom will bankrupt it. We left it up to the federal government to ensure the levees near New Orleans were sufficient - that worked out really well. So that should start to give an idea of how the thought of our government running health care could scare the snot out of anyone.

Hence why I stated numerous posts ago that I think universal health care should be limited to children under 18 years of age. Because if a child has parents who are not willing to work to affording health care or getting a job that provides health care, there is not much they can do. To help pay for this, maybe the child dependency exemption should be removed. The way I see it, if the government is paying for parents kids to get free health insurance, they can forgo that exemption.

Now to encourage far more employers to offer health insurance, I believe the tax code should be changed that instead of the current method where an employer can only write off dollar for dollar the cost of providing health insurance to employees, it should be changed to the point where for every dollar spent, the employer can write of (for example) one dollar and twenty-five cents. I just threw out $1.25, but basically an amount that would make offering health insurance to employees an extremely tempting benefit and so far, far more employers would offer that benefit. I also think the self employed should get the same tax benefit. Such a tax plan would greatly spread the availability of health insurance and to a large degree, keep the government from screwing it up too badly.

Now the flip side. Let's say 5, 10, 15 years go by and people like the universal healthcare for kids (in other words, the government didn't screw it up as bad as I imagine they would) and want it for everyone. In that case, instead of it being run on a federal level, have it run and funded (taxed) on the state level. Basically, similar to how Massachusetts runs their health care. The reason I like it being run on the state level is that way, states can compare themselves to other states to see how they are doing as far as administrating health insurance in a cost efficient manner. Yeah on a federal level the US could compare itself to Canada or Europe but it would be easier if you kept the comparisons within the country - similar currency, more similar government make up, more similar expectations to what healthcare should provide, etc..

[Setec Astronomy]

I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but sometimes I really feel like we're in that John Carpenter movie "They Live".

[Pennypacker]

Wow..thank goodness the percentages in this poll don't reflect the general population! Now that would be scary!

[jfelbab]

Originally Posted by Pennypacker

Wow..thank goodness the percentages in this poll don't reflect the general population! Now that would be scary!

Nah, having people who don't share your opinion is not scary. Living in a country where you have to share only one opinion would be scary.

Be happy we all have choice.

[User Name]

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

I find this verging on hysterically funny that you, who claims (no offense intended, it's just that anyone can say anything on the internet) to be a high-powered NYC tax att'y with wealthy clients is telling the middle-class detailers that they are getting screwed by the current administration, big business and the wealty, while the middle-class detailers are telling us it's government that's going to screw them if the party currently in the White House loses.

(Before we get into further "class" warfare, I believe John McCain has stated that the middle-class ends at $5 million/yr. income, so I feel pretty safe referring to the detailers here as "middle-class".)

Setec,

Not a tax attorney by any stretch. I am a litigator, but I work in a small downtown boutique type law firm. As a result, I get exposure to all aspects of the law. Also, I have only a handful of "wealthy" clients. Most are middle classed folks and below.

Also, I never said "high powered". I do pretty well for my own liking but by NYC standard, I'm a pauper...but to give you a bit of background info (which might clear things up for you)...

I'm first generation. Typical immigrant story. When I was born, I lived in a house with 16 other family members. My grand parents, my folks (and sisters), my two uncles and their families. We did it not because we loved each other so much, but because of necessity. We were as poor as poor comes, so I've seen the good and the bad.

As for my views on insurers, well I have specific knowledge because I've worked for some of the biggest ones, providing "insurance defense" in civil litigation. The notion that these companies will often deny coverage on care as a matter of policy just disgusted me to the extent that it changed my conservative views, of the insurance industry. To me, it is the most corrupt, most disgusting industry in America (yes, I'm including big oil in that as well).

So, the answer is "no" to "high powered", "no" to "tax attorney" and by John McCain's standard, I am FIRMLY in the middle class.

[User Name]

Bert,

Remember, the government doesn't screw up everything. We do have the greatest military force in the world, which is "socialized"!

I have no problem with a universal system at the State level, provided it is universal. I think the only area we differ is about the role of insurers. To me, they are an irresponsible middle man, in place to jack up prices. Take them out of the mix and costs will decrease 10 fold, IME.

[User Name]

Originally Posted by Pennypacker

Wow..thank goodness the percentages in this poll don't reflect the general population! Now that would be scary!

What did you expect...

A bunch of middle classed white guys who love cars (and I'd bet rock and roll). LOL

[Setec Astronomy]

Hey, some of you may think that Obama is a socialist, but Time magazine is making that claim for the current administration: How We Became the United States of France - TIME

[bert31]

Originally Posted by User Name

Remember, the government doesn't screw up everything. We do have the greatest military force in the world, which is "socialized"!

Our military is very effective but I don't believe it is very efficient. Too many reports of the military paying $400 for hammers and other non sense like that. I think with better efficiency, our military could be just as effective as it is now but spend 20% less but that is what happens when the government runs something.