Obama or McCain?

[Showroom Shine]

And You Still Do Not Have A Clue! THOOO1! You may not have enough time in life to Get It either. I'm praying for you!

[TH0001]

You must live in your own imaginary world. When has it ever been the same.

Since you don't know what it like to be white and I don't know what it is like to be black, we could both say that we are ignorant on both issues. Only you presume to know....

You do not ,nor will you ever have to deal with the obstacles the Black people face today in housing, jobs, promotions, getting a loan, getting treatment at a hospital.

I worked in a hospital for several years and I have NEVER seen somebody refused treatment for the color of their skin. I also know that black people had lower standards for getting a home loan, job, admission into college, etc which I don't think is fair. I agree in some circumstances (inner-city) that POOR (not black) people have a hard time getting an education that is of equal value to those for people who grow up in better conditions.

See I am not so quick to draw the line that poor=black, because it doesn't. Poor people have less opporunity, but after we moved to a suburb of Chicago (more affluent area) I saw black students and white students have the same access to education. Why should those students (those who grew up in a middle class area) have less standards for college admission when they had the same access to education. Why should poor white people not recieve the same pass because they aren't black (yet never had access to the better education that middle class black people have had?)

Have you ever been denied any of these basic services based soley on your race? I seriously doubt it!

Of course. When I was younger I grew up in a mostly black area. Even when I go back to visit I have been refused food, gotten jumped, refused drinks, etc... However I still am very good friends with a couple of the people I grew up and feel very comfortable being myself around my friends (and they feel comfortable being themselves around me). My family is first generation immagrants, so I know a little about being biased against as well. However, to me personally, it is a reason to succeed, not blame others.

It does go both ways, but blacks get the short end of the stick always. Do you sneek around at night with a white hood

Typical, you make racist statement which I call you on and you insinuate that I am racist or in the KKK. How typical that you feel you can make overly racist comments and me being white cannot even debate you with logic. In fact that comment should have you banned, IMO.

Get this through your head, you have made racial comments including saying what all white people think. Just because you have more melanon count in your DNA doesn' t give you the right to say you want, make overly ignorant and racial comments, then cry racism when somebody calls you on them. Okay?

[Holden_C04]

[Holden_C04]

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by Showroom Shine

Apollo,
You have done your homework. Would you please share some of that knowledge ans insight with THOOO1. Guy is lost!

Thanks, but it's not my article. It was written by Tim Dickinson of The Rolling Stone. It's up to you guys what to make of the article. I can't do much more than that.

Oh, it's not Apollo btw. That was a Greek god (of the Sun - also, the human ideal of perfection - can't possibly imagine why I would name my detailing business that ). It's also not Holden Caulfield either - that was a character in a J.D. Salinger novel.

You can call me Tyler.

[TH0001]

Well if you want to call voting for a black man racist because I'm black thats your choice

That isn't why I think your racist, btw...

The thing that scares most whites about OBama is not his financial plans, health care ideas, dealing with the war etc. What hinders people from voting for him is his race...
This whole thing is about (election) is RACE...
I AM VOTING FOR SOMEBODY WHO LOOKS LIKE ME

I think this shows why you are...

[User Name]

Originally Posted by TH0001

I also know that black people had lower standards for getting a home loan, job, admission into college, etc which I don't think is fair.

Actually, every predatory lending case I've ever worked on had a black as client. Basically, predatory lenders find blacks and hispanics who have low paying jobs, offer them financing at rates, just below usury levels and then proceed to rape them for years. Can you imagine that I had a black client who was an EMT, made about 40k per year and had a credit score in the low 600's or high 500's (can't exactly remember). Obviously his credit was not great. He buys a car and the only financing he could get was at 24.9%. Only problem was that the way the wrote the financing agreement, it looked like he was getting it at 8.9% which like an introductory rate, which reset after 30 days. Really tricky stuff.

Long story short is that I see this predatory stuff all the time and thus far I've only had black or Latino's as clients.

I agree in some circumstances (inner-city) that POOR (not black) people have a hard time getting an education that is of equal value to those for people who grow up in better conditions.

Quick example of something which went on in NJ which I think is relevant. I live in a nice town, with nice schools. A study was done of two high schools near where I live. One in Ridgewood, NJ one in Paterson, NJ. Ridgewood is a very affluent "village" and Paterson is a small urban city with a large black population. The school in Paterson was almost exclusively minority.

They compared the money each school got from the State and concluded that "money is not the answer" because Ridgewood actually got a bit less money than the highschool in Paterson, yet the differences in student achievement was stark. Simple, right? Not really.

The study failed to factor in "private donations" to each school. Ridgewood got hundreds of thousands in student fund raisers that Paterson never got. Ridgewood's wealthy neighbors supported the schools to such an extent, that it in fact gets more than 4 times what the school in Paterson gets. Is money the ONLY answer? No, but to suggest it doesn't have a place in the equation is just ridiculous.

From here on in, can we use the less "touchy" terms, "negro" and "honkey"? Maybe that will chill everyone out.

[User Name]

Todd,

Do you know that all white juries are more likely to set a white man free and convict a black man for the same crime?

Do you know that an all black jury is more likely to be lenient with a black man than a white jury but they generally treat a white man the same as a black man?

It is a strange phenomenon but it is real. Here's the reality about society... when I pick a jury and I have a Spanish client, I try to get as many Spanish people on my jury. If my client is black, I try to get blacks on my jury. If my client is white, I'm not that concerned because I feel like he or she will get a fair shake no matter who is on the jury.

[TH0001]

Actually, every predatory lending case I've ever worked on had a black as client. Basically, predatory lenders find blacks and hispanics who have low paying jobs, offer them financing at rates, just below usury levels and then proceed to rape them for years. Can you imagine that I had a black client who was an EMT, made about 40k per year and had a credit score in the low 600's or high 500's (can't exactly remember). Obviously his credit was not great. He buys a car and the only financing he could get was at 24.9%. Only problem was that the way the wrote the financing agreement, it looked like he was getting it at 8.9% which like an introductory rate, which reset after 30 days. Really tricky stuff.

Long story short is that I see this predatory stuff all the time and thus far I've only had black or Latino's as clients.

It seems to me that this person (regardless of skin color) probably shouldn't have even been considered for a loan to begin with...

I think it gets VERY tricky. If a minority doesn't get qualifed for a loan because they have a terrible credit score (their fault, nobody elses) then the government steps in and says it is because of racism. I believe (please correct me if I am wrong) but it is organizations like ACRON (with the support of Clinton?) that lowered the standards for home ownership for minorites, basically they don't have to be as qualifed for a loan.

Now the lenders are put in a trick situation, where they have to loan high risk money to somebody who really cannot afford it, because it would some how be racist if they didn't qualify on standards alone. High risk loans generally have higher interest rates, correct? It is a case of the government comming in and making things worse for everybody.

That doesn't grant animosity towards the lenders (who are absolutely wrong for not explaining the terms) but my question is it a result of the government telling lenders to give loans to people who cannot afford them, all in the name of racial equality (which obviously isn't equal).

Quick example of something which went on in NJ which I think is relevant. I live in a nice town, with nice schools. A study was done of two high schools near where I live. One in Ridgewood, NJ one in Paterson, NJ. Ridgewood is a very affluent "village" and Paterson is a small urban city with a large black population. The school in Paterson was almost exclusively minority.

They compared the money each school got from the State and concluded that "money is not the answer" because Ridgewood actually got a bit less money than the highschool in Paterson, yet the differences in student achievement was stark. Simple, right? Not really.

The study failed to factor in "private donations" to each school. Ridgewood got hundreds of thousands in student fund raisers that Paterson never got. Ridgewood's wealthy neighbors supported the schools to such an extent, that it in fact gets more than 4 times what the school in Paterson gets. Is money the ONLY answer? No, but to suggest it doesn't have a place in the
equation is just ridiculous.

From here on in, can we use the less "touchy" terms, "negro" and "honkey"? Maybe that will chill everyone out.

Very interesting, but you cannot change who people donate to... I think that education in this country is very screwed up and changes need to be made: Both a home (if you do not brand into your kids a young age how important education is then you cannot blame other people for holding you back) and at the funding level (the government should provide EQUAL opportunity for education and advancement based on merit, not skin color).

I agree its a complex situation but I strongly believe we (as a country) have not approached it correctly.

[User Name]

Just on education...

But that is the rub... money does play a roll, so the kids in Ridgewood with their investment banker, doctor and lawyer daddy's get a huge funding advantage over the kids in Paterson. Don't you see, it is a vicious cycle.

The further reality is that when one or two of the kids in Paterson "make it", they eventually move to towns like Ridgewood and guess where their money goes?

I'm not saying I have the answers, but I certainly know the questions.

[jayjacque]

Holden that is one long article. It may be biased but mostly true nonetheless. I've followed McCain since the eighties during the 20 or so years I used to live in Az. and there's just waaaaaaaaaay too much phoniness about him. I wouldn't dare blame him for anything about his actual POW experience. I respect that part, but so much of the other stuff in his life past and present, how he twists and spins things for his own ambition is just for show. When he had the forum in that big church I almost puked, because I remember what he really feels about Christian stuff. And that's been what he's like about almost everything, from taxes to deregulation to being a Maverick to energy. It's really all about him.

What scares me the most is his hawkish obsession to "get into" and "stay til we win" all wars. There's a reason he does that; It's because he feels we left Viet Nam without winning, so he wants to make that right. It's likely part of his unresolved PTSD.

[jayjacque]

Originally Posted by User Name

Actually, every predatory lending case I've ever worked on had a black as client. Basically, predatory lenders find blacks and hispanics who have low paying jobs, offer them financing at rates, just below usury levels and then proceed to rape them for years. Can you imagine that I had a black client who was an EMT, made about 40k per year and had a credit score in the low 600's or high 500's (can't exactly remember). Obviously his credit was not great. He buys a car and the only financing he could get was at 24.9%. Only problem was that the way the wrote the financing agreement, it looked like he was getting it at 8.9% which like an introductory rate, which reset after 30 days. Really tricky stuff.

Long story short is that I see this predatory stuff all the time and thus far I've only had black or Latino's as clients.



Quick example of something which went on in NJ which I think is relevant. I live in a nice town, with nice schools. A study was done of two high schools near where I live. One in Ridgewood, NJ one in Paterson, NJ. Ridgewood is a very affluent "village" and Paterson is a small urban city with a large black population. The school in Paterson was almost exclusively minority.

They compared the money each school got from the State and concluded that "money is not the answer" because Ridgewood actually got a bit less money than the highschool in Paterson, yet the differences in student achievement was stark. Simple, right? Not really.

The study failed to factor in "private donations" to each school. Ridgewood got hundreds of thousands in student fund raisers that Paterson never got. Ridgewood's wealthy neighbors supported the schools to such an extent, that it in fact gets more than 4 times what the school in Paterson gets. Is money the ONLY answer? No, but to suggest it doesn't have a place in the equation is just ridiculous.

From here on in, can we use the less "touchy" terms, "negro" and "honkey"? Maybe that will chill everyone out.

Dude thanks for the insight. There's certainly been more going on than meets the naive eye.