Obama or McCain? - Page 17

Scottwax · 10-17-08, 08:34

With respects to a progressive tax rate, any business that charged their customers based on what they made would be out of business very quickly. Why does government get to do it?

The rich pay way more than their share of the federal income taxes anyway. Top 1% pay about 30% of all federal income tax and the bottom 50% pay just less than 4%.

Mike-in no way am I defending what has been done with the banking system as of late. Bush turned out to not be nearly as conservative as he claimed to be. That said, I am still glad I voted for him over Kerry or Gore because government would have grown a lot more and we wouldn't have had any tax cuts.

Setec Astronomy · 10-17-08, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottwax

With respects to a progressive tax rate, any business that charged their customers based on what they made would be out of business very quickly. Why does government get to do it?

I don't know that I agree with that. Walk into a car dealer (other than Saturn), and what you pay is purely dependant on how well prepared you are and how hard you are willing to negotiate. If you are passive you will pay sticker or more, if you know what you are doing, you will probably pay a lot less.

Myself and Jr. and Spilchy live in the commuter corridor to Wall St. (let's just say that all the towns around here have WTC memorials with plenty of names on them), and the contractors (painters, roofers, etc.) are legendary for changing their pricing based on the zip code they are in. They know where the clientele can afford to pay more, and they bid accordingly. And no, they don't go out of business, there are plenty of more houses to go to...just like Moritz BMW doesn't go out of business from swirling up all those cars you get to fix. Speaking of that, I would be willing to bet that the hourly labor rate at the BMW or Benz dealer is more than the local Chevy or Ford dealer.

Perhaps you have been to a doctor or dentist that adjusts his billing a bit depending on whether you have insurance or even what the insurance company is...or a body shop that does that...I have heard so many stories (in my youth) of body shops waiving the deductible for the client since they got plenty from the insurance company (the insurance company being perceived as being "rich" as opposed to the poor car owner, and yes, I realize that is fraud).

How about scholarships? IIRC your son had one...that hardly seems fair to some of the other kids whose parents might have more means that they had to pay full price. I'm just saying there are lots of situations other than taxes, where the amount "billed" is based on the ability to pay. I'm not saying it's right or fair, but it is pragmatic, and the government isn't the only one that does it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottwax

The rich pay way more than their share of the federal income taxes anyway. Top 1% pay about 30% of all federal income tax and the bottom 50% pay just less than 4%.

Believe me, I don't think it's "fair" either, but it's pragmatic...a "rich" guy has way more disposable income than you do, that's why you're detailing his car. I'm just saying that a guy that makes $603K or $2.8 million who gets a big tax increase is still going to be really far away from the poverty line, a lot farther away than Joe the Plumber is, even if Joe gets a tax cut, instead. Besides, I have it on good authority (from Warren Buffet and Username) that the rich don't really pay the taxes they are supposed to thru loopholes, etc.

User Name · 10-18-08, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Myself and Jr. and Spilcy live in the commuter corridor to Wall St. (let's just say that all the towns around here have WTC memorials with plenty of names on them), and the contractors (painters, roofers, etc.) are legendary for changing their pricing based on the zip code they are in. They know where the clientele can afford to pay more, and they bid accordingly. And no, they don't go out of business, there are plenty of more houses to go to...just like Moritz BMW doesn't go out of business from swirling up all those cars you get to fix. Speaking of that, I would be willing to bet that the hourly labor rate at the BMW or Benz dealer is more than the local Chevy or Ford dealer.

More excellent stuff SA!

I'd like to add an anecdote to this....

Two of my best friends are contractors in NYC. Much of the work they do is in the cental park area (Central Park West seems to be their area). As SA and other New Yorkers know, the people who live in that area are, well, lets say "VERY COMFORTABLE" in life.

My buddies have TWO sets of prices. One for the Central Park area, and one for everybody else.

In fact, they KNOW if the don't inflate their prices, they won't get jobs, because the wealthy will think they are hacks. They have told me that the markup on their work is anywhere from 3 to 10 times higher than if they were working in Brooklyn or Queens. Sounds like progressive pricing, no?

calgarydetail · 10-18-08, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottwax

Mike-in no way am I defending what has been done with the banking system as of late. Bush turned out to not be nearly as conservative as he claimed to be. That said, I am still glad I voted for him over Kerry or Gore because government would have grown a lot more and we wouldn't have had any tax cuts.

Scott that is more then far, i didnt feel you were defending anything, i was just simply trying to state how the us economy is seen from an outside objective view.

User Name · 10-18-08, 01:46

BTW, the McCain pre-recorded ads about Obama as terrorist are about as low as you can get in politics. Pretty desperate from a guy who claims he'll "reach across the aisle".

There is no going back for him now.

I never believed his schtick regarding the "straight talk express", but now he's proven he's just another "sell your soul to the devil" washington insider.

Spilchy · 10-18-08, 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by User Name

Two of my best friends are contractors in NYC. Much of the work they do is in the cental park area (Central Park West seems to be their area). As SA and other New Yorkers know, the people who live in that area are, well, lets say "VERY COMFORTABLE" in life.

My parent's best friends of almost 50 years live there. He's a self made near billionaire. I was at a dinner party in their $16,000.000.00 duplex apartment last week which they purchased, totally gutted and restored. Let's just say the prices they paid to the various contractors was jaw dropping (the results phenomenal). I detail for them at their summer home in the Hamptons. I charge double what I charge everyone else and they don't bat an eye lash.

FWIW, they're voting for Obama as well as all their dinner guests (each equally wealthy). They were mortified by Sarah Palin (one of a slew of reasons). My town in Jersey is littered with Obama signs. Looks as if the Obama machine is going to gobble up McCain.

If Obama was all white with the name "John Henderson" he'd defeat McCain by a massive margin. I know of many Democrats who won't vote for him because of his bi-racial background. It was scary listening to them.

Setec Astronomy · 10-18-08, 03:19

So Spilchy...you're telling me all those multi-millionaires aren't up in arms about a possible 11% tax increase? Hmmph...go figure...

User Name · 10-18-08, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spilchy

FWIW, they're voting for Obama as well as all their dinner guests (each equally wealthy). They were mortified by Sarah Palin (one of a slew of reasons). My town in Jersey is littered with Obama signs. Looks as if the Obama machine is going to gobble up McCain.

If Obama was all white with the name "John Henderson" he'd defeat McCain by a massive margin. I know of many Democrats who won't vote for him because of his bi-racial background. It was scary listening to them.

I'm in Bergen County and I see a ton of Obama signs, a few "McBush" signs (yes that is exactly what the sign says - I would imagine you can count those as Obama supporters as well), but I have not seen a single McCain sign nearby (I've seen a few further away) but I think in the Northeast having a McCain/Palin sign would be pretty embarrassing.

BigAl3 · 10-18-08, 06:25

Setec Astronomy · 10-18-08, 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by User Name

I'm in Bergen County...I think in the Northeast having a McCain/Palin sign would be pretty embarrassing.

Jr. & I saw a M/P sign today a bit further south. Bergen County? What happened to Brooklyn?

dave40co · 10-18-08, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl3

WOW, what a stupid thing to post in a discussion where we are trying to be fair! Should I post the snippet of Obama picking his nose? Remember you get what you vote. I think Obama's Presidency and his redistribution of wealth along with the lowest ranking Congress ever will go down in history one notch below Carter. May God help whoever is elected! Of course I expect the usual comments from the Bill Maher types.

rt4x4 · 10-18-08, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave40co

WOW, what a stupid thing to post in a discussion where we are trying to be fair! Should I post the snippet of Obama picking his nose? Remember you get what you vote. I think Obama's Presidency and his redistribution of wealth along with the lowest ranking Congress ever will go down in history one notch below Carter. May God help whoever is elected! Of course I expect the usual comments from the Bill Maher types.

Believe Bush will go down a notch or two below Carter, and what is a Bill Maher type?