Obama or McCain?

[TortoiseAWD]

Originally Posted by lexusgs

Oh yeah Rolling Stone, there is a great source of truthful unbiased information and journalism

Care to discuss the content of the article instead of an argumentum ad hominem against the source? Did you even *read* the article? Are there specific claims made by the author that aren't supported, or for which you can provide evidence to the contrary?

Tort
(starting membership drive for the MYOBAGTHOML party . . .)

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by TortoiseAWD

Care to discuss the content of the article instead of an argumentum ad hominem against the source? Did you even *read* the article? Are there specific claims made by the author that aren't supported, or for which you can provide evidence to the contrary?

Tort
(starting membership drive for the MYOBAGTHOML party . . .)

There's a Canadian political party you might like. It's called the Rhinoceros party. Have a look:

Rhinoceros Party of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rhinoceros Party of Canada - Home

CBC News In Depth: The Rhinoceros party

[TortoiseAWD]

Originally Posted by User Name

Oh, I bet you're wildly popular with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

You better believe it.



(shamelessly hotlinked)

[Showroom Shine]

All the media have their own agenda, rather you know it or not. Or for that matter believe it. All I can say is I do not care to take a 90% chance that Mc Bush will change. I don't trust him,or his plans. If you are like the working people that are nowhere near retirement, age wise or time wise,you had better be giving your vote some serious thought. I'm 51 and the little nest egg of a 4O1K that I sweat to build is GONE! Thank God I still have my home and a job. Alot of people can not say that because of 8 years of a burning Bush administration. Plants closing, moving out of the country. Health Care through the roof. A very Expensive War. That the US should not be fighting. Our fellow Americans dying everyday. At the price of $10 Billion a week or month. The rich want yours and mine 5k,to bail them out. We loose our money and they are still rich? They are a bunch of ROBBING HOODS. Wake Up America, "IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE"

[dave40co]

Originally Posted by Showroom Shine

All the media have their own agenda, rather you know it or not. Or for that matter believe it. All I can say is I do not care to take a 90% chance that Mc Bush will change. I don't trust him,or his plans. If you are like the working people that are nowhere near retirement, age wise or time wise,you had better be giving your vote some serious thought. I'm 51 and the little nest egg of a 4O1K that I sweat to build is GONE! Thank God I still have my home and a job. Alot of people can not say that because of 8 years of a burning Bush administation. Plants closing, moving out of the country. Health Care through the roof. A very Expensive War. That the US should not be fighting. Our fellow Americans dying everyday. At the price of $10 Billion a week or month. The rich want yours and mine 5k,to bail them out. We loose our money and they are still rich? They are a bunch of ROBBING HOODS. Wake Up America, "IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE"

So go ahead and vote for an unproven leader with questionable friends. Ayers, Rev. Wright, Rezko and Raines! Health care is through the roof because of lawyers like Edwards, it has spiraled out of control for 30 years. I am sure that you went to the doctor more than in just the past 8 years. NAFTA and GATT were signed by Clinton. (loss of jobs) And remember that we have not had a terrorist attack here since 2001. People drive me crazy with their short sightedness. The war is because of 17 UN resolutions that were violated and read the list of people that voted for it before they were against it. Lastly, does anyone REALLY think that 1 man in the White House will actually do a thing to fix this? I know I will not vote for a closet socialist to fix what is left of our democracy.

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by dave40co

So go ahead and vote for an unproven leader with questionable friends. Ayers, Rev. Wright, Rezko and Raines! Health care is through the roof because of lawyers like Edwards, it has spiraled out of control for 30 years. I am sure that you went to the doctor more than in just the past 8 years. NAFTA and GATT were signed by Clinton. (loss of jobs) And remember that we have not had a terrorist attack here since 2001. People drive me crazy with their short sightedness. The war is because of 17 UN resolutions that were violated and read the list of people that voted for it before they were against it. Lastly, does anyone REALLY think that 1 man in the White House will actually do a thing to fix this? I know I will not vote for a closet socialist to fix what is left of our democracy.

Hmmm...I think I will take the Black man over McCain with this type of record:

Habitual Adulterer (we're talking several dozen different women, maybe more)
World's Worst Case of Nepotism? (every job/school he got or was accepted for was as a result of his father's intervention)
Flip Flop Extraordinaire Votes according to what suits him at the time/gets him the most attention.
Corrupt To The Bone Pushed through several pork projects at Congress, despite efforts by others such as Jimmy Carter to end corruption.

Not my facts so don't flame me. Just repeating what was in the article. I wasn't particularly negative at all about McCain up 'til this point. Truth is, I didn't know much at all about him before this article.

[dave40co]

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

Hmmm...I think I will take the Black man over McCain with this type of record:

Habitual Adulterer (we're talking several dozen different women, maybe more)
World's Worst Case of Nepotism? (every job/school he got or was accepted for was as a result of his father's intervention)
Flip Flip Extraordinaire Votes according to what suits him at the time/gets him the most attention.
Corrupt To The Bone Pushed through several pork projects at Congress, despite efforts by others such as Jimmy Carter to end corruption.

Not my facts so don't flame me. Just repeating what was in the article. I wasn't particularly negative at all about McCain up 'til this point. Truth is, I didn't know much at all about him before this article.

Habitual Adulterer, I guess thats only OK if your a Democrat such as Clinton.
World's Worst Case of Nepotism? Which politician doesn't do that? How many Kennedy's are in a prominent position because of nepotism?
Flip Flip Extraordinaire, One word "Kerry"
Corrupt To The Bone, Ever hear of ACORN and Obama's ties to it?

You still don't know much about him since this was in the Rolling Stone a left wing rag. Look at who started it, owns it and check out their political leanings.

NEWS FLASH FOR ALL OF THE WORLD!

Obama isn't Black, he is of mixed race. Black is convenient right now!

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by dave40co

NEWS FLASH FOR ALL OF THE WORLD!

Obama isn't Black, he is of mixed race. Black is convenient right now!

What the heck is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that being half white and half black is worse than being all black? Or are you saying that he's really Muslim and that it's convenient for him to call himself black right now?

[User Name]

Originally Posted by dave40co

Health care is through the roof because of lawyers like Edwards, it has spiraled out of control for 30 years.

Actually, this myth was debunked two years ago. The study,“ Claims, Errors, and Compensation Payments in Medical Malpractice Litigation,� was conducted by a prestigious group from the Harvard School of Public Health and the Harvard Risk Management Foundation and was published in the May 11, 2006 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

The study ultimately concluded that litigation accounted for less than 2% of health care costs, but since this happens to be my area of expertise, I want to show you how "medical malpractice caps" really hurt good people like you.

You often here that we need "tort reform" and "caps" on lawsuits to stop "FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS". Let me PROVE to you, why you are being hoodwinked:

Republicans want to cap non-compensatory damages to 250k. How does 250k stop a "frivolous" law suit. A "frivolous" suit doesn't seek to "ring the bell" (as we say in the business). Frivolous suits look to get quick (and usually small amounts) of money from medical insurers. They will still survive. The ones that won't are like the case of a lady I represented. Here is her TRUE story (case went to trial).

Lady went in for a scheduled C-section. She was 25 and in perfect health. They prepped her and put her on the operating table and the anaesthesiologist gave her a "spinal" which numbs the entire lower half of the body and the incision site. He then placed her in the supine position. He didn't realize she wasn't fully flat, but actually slightly with her head lower than her legs. He injected the anaestesia and her OB/GYN successfully delivered a baby girl. What they didn't realize is that while she was lying there, the anaestsia started to migrate upwards (toward her head) until it got to the heart. Guess what happened next? Cardiac arrest.

Where was the anaesthesiologist? Whooping it up with some nurses in the cafeteria. The OB was gone, the only people left in the room to stitch her up, were two residents. They immediately called for the anaesthesiologist. He came and one of the residents said to him "call a code". He said no, just give her an "epi". They did, but the heart didn't start. Resident... "call a code". NO, increase the epi. Valuable minutes passed as my client lay on the table in full cardiac arrest.

Finally, the resident says, "you're killing her, calling a f__king code". Okay, call a code. That immediately start CPR and hit her with a defib. They bring her back.

Only she's been without oxygen for 2 whole minutes. Guess what that means? She's a vegetable. She will never walk, talk, feed herself, or hold her own baby. She's alive and cognizant of the rest of the world, but she has NO bodily functions at all. Our economist opined that her medical care will cost more than 11 million dollars for the rest of her life. Our medical experts opined that she will NEVER recover. Under the plan for "caps", she would get 250k and then she'd be on public assitance (where our taxes would care for her at the lowest level). We got a special needs trust for her (after verdict) with a value of 23 million dollars. That money will only be used for her healthcare and toward her daughter. Her husband left her two years after the incident and gets nothing from the suit, nor did he want anything. He just couldn't cope with seeing her like that everyday.

The radiologist lost his license (not for the malpractice) but thereafter, he attempted to change all the medical records. If we didn't get the honest testimony of one the residents, he would have gotten away with it. Still think we need caps? What if she was your sister or cousin?

And remember that we have not had a terrorist attack here since 2001.

Very true and it only cost us 4,000 brave soldiers and another 25,000 severly wonded ones, yet we are no safer today than we were on September 10, 2001.

Lastly, does anyone REALLY think that 1 man in the White House will actually do a thing to fix this?

No one man can, but a change of ideology can.

I know I will not vote for a closet socialist to fix what is left of our democracy.

Interesting notion, although you created a sentence and argument out of two entirely incongruent thoughts.

I believe your intention is to suggest that Obama (the closet socialist) will ruin our democracy, correct? Yet, no one President has curtailed more civil liberties (yours and mine) than Bush an ardent "capitalist" and "anti-socialist", no?

I have litigated hundreds of civil rights cases over the last 10 years and simple measures like the "Patriot" act are the real culprits in destroying democracy. The notion that your government can tap your phones warrantless doesn't worry you? I'm sure there are other attorneys on this site who can validate what I'm saying but simple things are going on that represent a loss of your democracy, most supported by conservative judges and republicans (like NO RIGHT to privacy on cell phone calls). Can you imagine? Is this China?

How about all of the Bushie censorship? Don't you think the pretext of decency is an attack on the first amendment? Listen, you can cherry pick where you like, but lets at least be intellectually honest about this stuff...and for the record, there are a lot of places on the planet with a better "social safety net" than America, where the people enjoy higher standards of living than we do. Take a trip to some Scandanavian countries and go see for yourself. Not only will you enjoy some of the hottest women on the planet, but see how good the majority live, not just those at the top of the food chain.

The last thing I'll say while I'm on my soap box is this... what made America, America is the willingness to see and recognize that sometimes people do things better than we do. Once we see that, we take what they do and make it even better. Instead of using scary words like "socialism" and "terrorism", why not pick the places in the world with the best healthcare systems and emulate them. The places free from terrorism and emulate them. The places with the highest standard of living, best education and lowest crime and emulate them. If you can't see that makes me a HUGE patriot, the problem is with you, not me.

[Setec Astronomy]

Wow, User Name, not even one sound bite! I, for one, will be sorry to lose you back up north.

I do have to point out that um, yeah, we haven't had a terrorist attack here since 2001...er...so what? When was the last one before that...well, 1993, the first time they tried to take down the WTC. And then before that...well...that would have been....wait...do we count Tim McVeigh? Or only Muslims count in terrorist attacks? Well, if we count Muslim attacks...on US soil...it's been 7 years since 9/11...and it was 8 years between 1993 and 2001...by my math, that comes out that Clinton has a better record in the war on terror than W.; is that right?

[User Name]

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Wow, User Name, not even one sound bite! I, for one, will be sorry to lose you back up north.

SA,

You have NO idea... when I was a highschool student in Canada I was the biggest PRO-Yank person you've ever seen. I love Canada, but I also love America. I would NEVER say that either is perfect and that is what we should always strive for. I think both countries could stand to learn a lot from each other and from many amazing European nations.

Ahhhh... forget it... can we just go back to talking about hot swedish chicks?

[Showroom Shine]

Originally Posted by User Name

Actually, this myth was debunked two years ago. The study,“ Claims, Errors, and Compensation Payments in Medical Malpractice Litigation,� was conducted by a prestigious group from the Harvard School of Public Health and the Harvard Risk Management Foundation and was published in the May 11, 2006 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

The study ultimately concluded that litigation accounted for less than 2% of health care costs, but since this happens to be my area of expertise, I want to show you how "medical malpractice caps" really hurt good people like you.

You often here that we need "tort reform" and "caps" on lawsuits to stop "FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS". Let me PROVE to you, why you are being hoodwinked:

Republicans want to cap non-compensatory damages to 250k. How does 250k stop a "frivolous" law suit. A "frivolous" suit doesn't seek to "ring the bell" (as we say in the business). Frivolous suits look to get quick (and usually small amounts) of money from medical insurers. They will still survive. The ones that won't are like the case of a lady I represented. Here is her TRUE story (case went to trial).

Lady went in for a scheduled C-section. She was 25 and in perfect health. They prepped her and put her on the operating table and the anaesthesiologist gave her a "spinal" which numbs the entire lower half of the body and the incision site. He then placed her in the supine position. He didn't realize she wasn't fully flat, but actually slightly with her head lower than her legs. He injected the anaestesia and her OB/GYN successfully delivered a baby girl. What they didn't realize is that while she was lying there, the anaestsia started to migrate upwards (toward her head) until it got to the heart. Guess what happened next? Cardiac arrest.

Where was the anaesthesiologist? Whooping it up with some nurses in the cafeteria. The OB was gone, the only people left in the room to stitch her up, were two residents. They immediately called for the anaesthesiologist. He came and one of the residents said to him "call a code". He said no, just give her an "epi". They did, but the heart didn't start. Resident... "call a code". NO, increase the epi. Valuable minutes passed as my client lay on the table in full cardiac arrest.

Finally, the resident says, "you're killing her, calling a f__king code". Okay, call a code. That immediately start CPR and hit her with a defib. They bring her back.

Only she's been without oxygen for 2 whole minutes. Guess what that means? She's a vegetable. She will never walk, talk, feed herself, or hold her own baby. She's alive and cognizant of the rest of the world, but she has NO bodily functions at all. Our economist opined that her medical care will cost more than 11 million dollars for the rest of her life. Our medical experts opined that she will NEVER recover. Under the plan for "caps", she would get 250k and then she'd be on public assitance (where our taxes would care for her at the lowest level). We got a special needs trust for her (after verdict) with a value of 23 million dollars. That money will only be used for her healthcare and toward her daughter. Her husband left her two years after the incident and gets nothing from the suit, nor did he want anything. He just couldn't cope with seeing her like that everyday.

The radiologist lost his license (not for the malpractice) but thereafter, he attempted to change all the medical records. If we didn't get the honest testimony of one the residents, he would have gotten away with it. Still think we need caps? What if she was your sister or cousin?


Very true and it only cost us 4,000 brave soldiers and another 25,000 severly wonded ones, yet we are no safer today than we were on September 10, 2001.


No one man can, but a change of ideology can.



Interesting notion, although you created a sentence and argument out of two entirely incongruent thoughts.

I believe your intention is to suggest that Obama (the closet socialist) will ruin our democracy, correct? Yet, no one President has curtailed more civil liberties (yours and mine) than Bush an ardent "capitalist" and "anti-socialist", no?

I have litigated hundreds of civil rights cases over the last 10 years and simple measures like the "Patriot" act are the real culprits in destroying democracy. The notion that your government can tap your phones warrantless doesn't worry you? I'm sure there are other attorneys on this site who can validate what I'm saying but simple things are going on that represent a loss of your democracy, most supported by conservative judges and republicans (like NO RIGHT to privacy on cell phone calls). Can you imagine? Is this China?

How about all of the Bushie censorship? Don't you think the pretext of decency is an attack on the first amendment? Listen, you can cherry pick where you like, but lets at least be intellectually honest about this stuff...and for the record, there are a lot of places on the planet with a better "social safety net" than America, where the people enjoy higher standards of living than we do. Take a trip to some Scandanavian countries and go see for yourself. Not only will you enjoy some of the hottest women on the planet, but see how good the majority live, not just those at the top of the food chain.

The last thing I'll say while I'm on my soap box is this... what made America, America is the willingness to see and recognize that sometimes people do things better than we do. Once we see that, we take what they do and make it even better. Instead of using scary words like "socialism" and "terrorism", why not pick the places in the world with the best healthcare systems and emulate them. The places free from terrorism and emulate them. The places with the highest standard of living, best education and lowest crime and emulate them. If you can't see that makes me a HUGE patriot, the problem is with you, not me.

I am so glad that someone else is paying attention. If Mr. Obama was another race besides black all of this would not be going on. There has never been a black man this close to the Presidency. There are alot of deep seated racist black and white tyhat can not put color aside and pick a man that can help US. Some of you are so extreme about it, that if you were dying and a Black man colud save your life with his blood. You would refuse it and Die. Well, I'm black and I have lived under a white mans rule for 50 plus years, and they did not always do so good. Some even screwed it totallly up. With things being the way they are , I'll pass on a Maverick!