City Requires Mobile Detailers to Capture Run Off!

[Dsoto87]

Relaited, Im just going to be blunt about things...

You push this water $mart, and reclamation mat thing way too hard. So hard to the point that I think your pockets may be affected by the sales, or lack there of of water mats, waterless wash products, etc.

Its one thing to recommend it and share your opinion. But to be a smart *** in every thread, threads which arent yours or have nothing to do with eco detailing, is just a little bit annoying.

Forum sponsors dont even push their products the way you do. Its almost to the point of spam. Most of the time your responses arent even answering a questions. Just a sly remark about how wasteful we are and how your water $mart water mats and waterless wash is the RIGHT way and the ONLY way.

Get off your high horse. You can give advice and recommendations without the soap box.

I appreciate others here who have mentioned being more eco friendly, but they didnt go about it the way you do. They brought intelligent discussions to the table, not just a one sided "do it my way or no way at all" argument.

You are making my point that most in this industry are technicians, not business people. 2 days on a detail ... 6 hours perfecting paint ... holy cow, that is embarrassing from my point of view.

I think your really on the wrong site man. You should go look for a volume car washing forum. Look for others that do the same type of work that you do, and preach to them. I think weekendwarrior already explained the difference between those doing car washes and those actually detailing.

Customers love the quality and convenience.

Im sure they do. But theres also another set of customers that want a little bit more attention paid to the finer details. Thats where someone like an "autopian" would come in.

You have your niche. Thats good, and im glad your making money. Just stop the preaching.

[Banacheq]

Originally Posted by Dsoto87

Relaited, Im just going to be blunt about things...

You push this water , and reclamation mat thing way too hard. So hard to the point that I think your pockets may be affected by the sales, or lack there of of water mats, waterless wash products, etc.

Its one thing to recommend it and share your opinion. But to be a smart *** in every thread, threads which arent yours or have nothing to do with eco detailing, is just a little bit annoying.

Forum sponsors dont even push their products the way you do. Its almost to the point of spam. Most of the time your responses arent even answering a questions. Just a sly remark about how wasteful we are and how your water water mats and waterless wash is the RIGHT way and the ONLY way.

Get off your high horse. You can give advice and recommendations without the soap box.

I appreciate others here who have mentioned being more eco friendly, but they didnt go about it the way you do. They brought intelligent discussions to the table, not just a one sided "do it my way or no way at all" argument.



I think your really on the wrong site man. You should go look for a volume car washing forum. Look for others that do the same type of work that you do, and preach to them. I think weekendwarrior already explained the difference between those doing car washes and those actually detailing.


Im sure they do. But theres also another set of customers that want a little bit more attention paid to the finer details. Thats where someone like an "autopian" would come in.

You have your niche. Thats good, and im glad your making money. Just stop the preaching.

You just saved me a lot of typing. My sentiments exactly.

[weekendwarrior]

[quote=Relaited;1248612]You are making my point that most in this industry are technicians, not business people. 2 days on a detail ... 6 hours perfecting paint ... holy cow, that is embarrassing from my point of view.


I am passionate, and I am motivated by making money. That’s why I call it Water $mart Eco Detailing. I think it is a great model. When I sit 100 feet from the entrance of a Nordstrom’s … there is no way I could spend 2 days on that $80,000 Mercedes 2 years old. We spend about an hour with a team of 2 for $179 … thank you very much. Do you get over $1,200 for your 2 days of effort? Customers love the quality and convenience.[quote]

Regarding the first comment above, you find it embarrasing that we spend so long working on a car. Conversely, I would probably be embarrased by presenting to my clients what you refer to as a "detail". Additionally, I'd probably be fired by my client, and then flamed on sites like this by them for being a hack. There's no way a team of 2 could spend only an hour on a car and perfect it. That's the difference...your clients seem to want Big Macs through a drive through window (convenience), and our clients want Morton's and are willing to wait for the better quality.

Regarding the second comment...again, your passion is to be commended. But like a religious zealot, there is a fine line between being passionate, and believing only you are right, and pushing your idea on everyone as the only truth. What ends up happening a lot of times is that the over zealousness turns a lot of people off to your idea, simply by the way you come across. See, you have managed to come to this site, and turn the majority of people off to your ideas, just because of the way you interact.

If you want to truly see the time involved in what most autopia pros do, go glance at the "Click and Brag" section. Most detail the steps involved, and time that goes into the detail.

Regarding pricing, most autopian pros charge between $50-$80 hour for a corrective detail. If it takes 2 days, then do the math. You seem to be passionate about being water smart and making money. Most of us are passionate about making the car as perfect as we can, and making money.

[SCoach]

Originally Posted by weekendwarrior

You seem to be passionate about being water smart and making money. Most of us are passionate about making the car as perfect as we can, and making money.

My question, as a non-professional and someone who has environmental concerns, is are the two mutually exclusive? Is it feasible to have the goals of making the car look as good as possible, and being water smart?

I prefer not to get into the other argument. I'll leave that to you passionate pros...

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by Relaited

You are making my point that most in this industry are technicians, not business people. 2 days on a detail ... 6 hours perfecting paint ... holy cow, that is embarrassing from my point of view.

And, let's say I accept your logic, that most autopians are like you ... then in aggregate, you are all an issue. Law of big numbers

You will see, the regulators will fix this as I agree this is the dominant view of those here. That's why I share these threads with the regulators, so they can get a sense of what the industry really thinks.

Thanks for making my point.

Do you actually read anything here? This is not a car wash site, it's an OCD anal-retentive 99.9th percentile site. If you share this with regulators, you are giving them a completely skewed version of what "detailing" or car washing is about. If you look at the stats, we only have 3000-odd active members here, many of which are like me, who have never touched a car other than their own, family, or friends.

What people are pointing out here...well...no, I wouldn't want to drink the runoff from my car wash, even if I'm only using biodegradable detergent. I likewise wouldn't want to drink the runoff from the street in front of my house. Why? Because it's full of road salt, brake dust, tire dust, dog piss, oil drips, garbage, and oh, did I mention, it's made from a petroleum product, asphalt?

Anyone who approaches this from an "engineering" point of view (or is that a "technicians" POV?) can see that your car doesn't "capture" anything but a small fraction of the brake dust and rotor rust, and virtually none of the tire dust, not to mention fluid leaks, etc. The idea that this stuff is only released when cars are washed is ridiculous.

That being said, and I think I posted this same thought earlier in the thread, is that it's a difficult regulatory challenge. Obviously no one wants to feed motor oil to fish, so you can't ALLOW it, but at the same time, it's going on all around you. So what do you do? You make laws against it, but you only selectively enforce the law...when someone is doing something blatant.

Do you truly, truly, believe that if there were no one washing cars outside without water reclamation, that it would even make a dent in the amount of brake dust going down the storm drains? Where is the hue and cry about the over 200 million pounds of salt we put down on the roads here in NJ this winter? Maybe we should have a law that all new vehicles should be hybrids so that instead of bleeding off energy by the friction of brake pads, it could be recovered as electricity instead of spreading particles all over the road. Or maybe there should be a law requring everyone to have Blizzak tires in the winter, so they wouldn't have to salt the roads?

Common sense would indicate that vastly more vehicle "dirt" is deposited onto the roads from normal driving than is done from matless washing...do you have any statistics to back up your assertion that it isn't?

I don't think any of us think pollution is good, what we are responding to is the hypocrisy of being told that you can't wash brake dust off your wheels, but you can drive around all you want spreading it over the countryside. It would be different if you said "you can't wash it off, AND you have to put this double-stick tape on the inside of your wheels to catch all the dust and once a quarter bring it to the brake dust recycling center where they will carefully remove it and properly dispose of it, and put new sticky stuff on". Show me some legislation that is as gung-ho about getting brake dust off the roads as they are about getting it off of my wash sponge.

[Relaited]

I operate in So California ... seems to be a different country ...

Bottom line, when I jump in on a thread, like someone asking for products and process on an Engine Detail, I do jump in to share points about containing the contaminants. When I am with the Regulators, this is what they care about.

I am motivated by money. I am rapidly expanding this model here, largely without a fight from the industry. The government is introducing regulations that tilt the scale in my direction. The property managers are selecting the Amenity based on Water $mart Eco Detailing. the only challenges I get are relationship based. A guy has been in an office building for 15 years , knows everyone, and everyone likes him ... but rest assured, the pressure washer is being ripped from his hands as we speak. And only through those relationships is he offered the opportunity to scramble to find a water $mart eco detailing solution. Those without relationships are getting the boot!

That is the reality, my reality. If it is not happening in your world, I think it will soon, and there is an opportunity to be a first mover.

On another forum, I behaved the same way ... received the stereotypical responses as I have received here. After a year, there are several "converts", and it is exciting to see the traditional industry veteran have to admit that he put down his pressure washer and came over to the dark side ... and it is allowing him to put out quality that rivals and or blows away anyone here ... ANYONE. So to dismiss this model is very ..... well, you fill in the blank.

Bring it on, like the guy above, he was embarrassed when I share d his historical posts with him. I have not yet been embarrassed by any posts I have made

“Don’t teach a pig to sing … frustrates you and annoys the pig!”

-jim

PS If your customer comes up to pay you $179 for a Maintenance & Protection service on their 2 year old $80,000 Mercedes that was conveniently serviced, came out great, while they were at the movies or shopping with their family ... and you are embarrassed about that? Then take the scenario to your CPA, and see what they think ... oh, don't have a CPA ... making my points all over the place!

PPS So many try to come back at me ... dude, you can't color sand they way I do! I do not get defensive, I recognize that. For the limited scenarios that we see the need for such services, we outsource to those that have that expertise. I know who I am, what I can do and what I cannot do. I know what training I have and do not have. I don't get defensive ... realistic self appraisal and decision making process can benefit most here ...

[Relaited]

Setec,

Does not matter what I think ... it matters what the regulators think.

And, like it or not, they do not think like you.

Bottom line

-jim

[Jakerooni]

You're getting called out on almost every single thread your posting in. I just want to point out one more little fact here. You do realize that "washing" the car is only a very very minor part of what we do to get the cars to the level we get the cars. where as "washing" the cars is almost entirely what you do. Your business structure isn't anything more than I would call basic prep work for what 99% of us on here do.

Now the powers that be in your area might have come down on you like the hammer of thor for some reason. But for the rest of us... I'll take a stab and say byt the time this legal cancer spreads to the rest of us most of us will be out of the business anyways. Meaning we're talking years and years and years away. There are so many other things in this country to worry about long before wash water going down a drain is even going to be a blip on anyones radar. Now it's been said you''re pushing this because your upside down in some franchise. I don't know if that's totally true or not but I would easily say what your doing now is nothing short of spam. It's a unwated sales pitch. Time to stop.

[Setec Astronomy]

Jake, another point is, for a fixed-base operator like yourself, your runoff is going to the sanitary sewer, which in most areas means it's going to the sewage treatment plant, not into the river or lake without treatment. As far as how big this "problem" is, I'm not sure I've ever seen a mobile detailer IRL, only in pictures on here.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by SCoach

Having formerly worked for Florida's Dept. of Env. Protection (in water and legal) and having a GF that currently works for Water in a section responsible for testing stormwater runoff, I asked her some hard questions last night.

The issue to me with these ordinances is not so much that they seek to catch potentially harmful runoff. Frankly, I don't have a problem with the idea. It's going to be brutal for the mobile guys though. The REAL devil is in what to do with the run-off once you have it?

Industrial wastewater is regulated quite strictly here in Florida, and fines from those out of compliance bring in a LOT of money to cover budgetary shortfalls in the agency. But, large industrial installations have treatment options that the mobile detailer simply doesn't. It's not like you can catch your water, filter it, and present the sludge to a facility for disposal. Any such facility would have to be permitted to perform that function, and currently it simply doesn't exist.

Sticky problem to be sure.

Er...actually it does, it's called a sewage treatment plant. You take your collected runoff, and pour it into a sanitary sewer. If you have filtered out the particulate, that can go in your garbage as solid waste.

[Picus]

P.S Autopians, is this true?

Yes. Generally speaking most of the pro detailers here are spending 90% of their time doing correction, and 5% of their time washing cars. I work 7 days a week, usually 5-7 cars a week; so 5-7 washes a week. That's in contrast to volume detailers that are doing hundreds of washes a week. It's an entirely different type of service.

[trig]

Originally Posted by Picus

P.S Autopians, is this true?

Yes. Generally speaking most of the pro detailers here are spending 90% of their time doing correction, and 5% of their time washing cars. I work 7 days a week, usually 5-7 cars a week; so 5-7 washes a week. That's in contrast to volume detailers that are doing hundreds of washes a week. It's an entirely different type of service.

5% is a little bit of an exageration, but your idea is true (for me at least). I wash a car to clean it up for correction/full detail. It is like you said, prep work.