How does wax bond to paint?

[Mosca]

Wow. Rom Ketcham. I don't know why he was banned, but, speaking as a person who likes to post subjective opinions, I like his insistence on having assertions backed up.


Tom

[Jesstzn]

Originally posted by Mosca
Wow. Rom Ketcham. I don't know why he was banned, but, speaking as a person who likes to post subjective opinions, I like his insistence on having assertions backed up.


Tom

I see Ron pop up on VWvortex/detailing once in a while and have spoken on the ph. with him.. I found him very informative and extreemly well versed on the detailing why and how fundamentals..

I learned more from him in a 1/2 hour ph call than I did in the previous 3 months of reading. I think a lot don't like his postings because they are based on fact, knowledge and logic and it went against the ones that are

"so into "brand names" , even their clothes have to have a highly advertised name logo on them or the clothing isn't worth considering."

Have to love his signature in that thread.

Famous quote from Ron... We want to remember him just the way he is!


etc etc

[Mosca]

Wow, sent him an email and got a response in about 10 minutes.

I ain't got nothing against people into brand names and designer clothing; it's not for me, but why care what someone else is into? That's prolly part of the reason! But, to each his/her own. All are happy, this is kinda OT, and back to the original question.

Mods, you might wanna delete a couple posts, if they're improper; OK by me.


Tom

[bretfraz]

Originally posted by Jesstzn
I see Ron pop up on VWvortex/detailing once in a while and have spoken on the ph. with him.. I found him very informative and extreemly well versed on the detailing why and how fundamentals..

I learned more from him in a 1/2 hour ph call than I did in the previous 3 months of reading. I think a lot don't like his postings because they are based on fact, knowledge and logic and it went against the ones that are

"so into "brand names" , even their clothes have to have a highly advertised name logo on them or the clothing isn't worth considering."

Have to love his signature in that thread.

Famous quote from Ron... We want to remember him just the way he is!


etc etc

As a relative newbie, you missed all the interaction we had with Ron before he departed this community. Very few people here, especially veterans, have a problem with "fact, knowledge, and logic". If those were his only traits, he'd still be a valued and respected member here.

There are very good reasons Ron has "separated" from numerous online forums and they have little to do with facts, knowledge, or logic.

I continue to be troubled by the public conduct of car care industry insiders and "professionals" in online chat forums. I can think of a few "experts" and business owners who are actually proud of being banned from numerous forums. People like Forrest from Mothers are a rare breed; helpful and knowledgable yet respectful and humble. The Ron Ketcham's of the world could learn a great deal from folks like Forrest.

[Jesstzn]

TY bretfraz .. understood

[Mosca]

It doesn't hurt that forrest's products are excellent as well. I was also impressed by the conduct of the AcrylicWerks guy, Mark, under conditions that must have been very difficult for him. His product has been pretty well panned here, and yet he has been polite even as he disagrees. Now THAT'S hard.

Has anyone googled this question, BTW? I'm going to do it now.


Tom

[Mosca]

Well, there is a lot of research done on "how wax works" in the ski and surfing areas. The gist of it is, wax sticks because one side of it is sticky, and it slips because the other end of it is slippery.

I think that what you'll find is molecules with one end as a receptor and the other end presenting no receptors and a relatively flat surface to other molecules, and also linked to other similar molecules at different points along the chain, to form a "net" of wax. The more I think of this, the more intersted I am. I'm going to go to the library and see if I can come up with more.

Tom

[Mosca]

Found while googling:

"Carnauba wax produces the shiny surface of Gummy Bears, Gummy Worms, Jelly Beans and many other candies."

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ecoph22.htm

[AlBoston]

wow this thread brings back a lot of memories when i first started lurking on autopia . I am really pumped to apply some KSG to the ML this weekend! Maybe I will switch the C320 from zaino to Klasse! Only time will tell!

[Mosca]

http://www.lipid.co.uk/infores/Lipids/waxes/

"The nature of the other lipid constituents can vary greatly with the source of the waxy material, but they include hydrocarbons, sterol esters, aliphatic aldehydes, alcohols and ketones, beta-diketones, triacylglycerols, and many more. Also, the chain-length and degree of unsaturation and branching of the aliphatic constituents will vary with the origin of the wax, but other than in waxes of marine origin or from some higher animals, the aliphatic moieties tend to be saturated or monoenoic."

"Plant leaf surfaces are coated with a thin layer of waxy material that serves a myriad of functions. This layer is microcrystalline in structure and forms the outer boundary of the cuticular membrane; it is the interface between the plant and the atmosphere. It has a myriad of functions limiting the diffusion of water and solutes, while permitting a controlled release of volatiles. It provides protection from disease and insects, and helps the plants resist drought. As plants cover much of the earth's surface, it seems likely that plant waxes are the most abundant of all natural lipids... [Carnauba] contains mainly wax esters (85%), accompanied by small amounts of free acids and alcohols, hydrocarbons and resins. The wax esters constitute C16 to C20 fatty acids linked to C30 to C34 alcohols, giving C46 to C54 molecular species."


Table 1. The major constituents of plant leaf waxes

Compound/Structure
n-Alkanes CH3(CH2)xCH3 21 to 35C - odd numbered
Alkyl esters CH3(CH2)xCOO(CH2)yCH3 34 to 62C - even numbered
Fatty acids CH3(CH2)xCOOH 16 to 32C - even numbered
Fatty alcohols (primary) CH3(CH2)yCH2OH 22 to 32C - even numbered
Fatty aldehydes CH3(CH2)yCHO 22 to 32C - even numbered
Ketones CH3(CH2)xCO(CH2)yCH3 23 to 33C - odd numbered
Fatty alcohols (secondary) CH3(CH2)xCHOH (CH2)yCH3 23 to 33C - odd numbered
ß-Diketones CH3(CH2)xCOCH2CO(CH2)yCH3 27 to 33C - odd numbered
Triterpenols Sterols, alpha-amyrin, beta-amyrin, uvaol, lupeol, erythrodiol
Triterpenoid acids Ursolic acid, oleanolic acid, etc

"In addtion, there may be hydroxy-ß-diketones, oxo-ß-diketones, alkenes, branched alkanes, acids, esters, acetates and benzoates of aliphatic alcohols, methyl, phenylethyl and triterpenoid esters, and many more.

The amount of each lipid class and the nature and proportions of the various molecular species within each class vary greatly according to the plant species and the site of wax deposition (leaf, flower, fruit, etc.) and some data for some well-studied species are listed in Table 2."


Tom

[Mosca]

High resolution scanning electron microscopy of epicuticular waxes

One of 6 pictures... can you tell that I have today off and it's about 30* out, too cold to wax?

[Mosca]

I didn't find a cut-and-pasteable source, but what I found was that wax is not a pure compound; it is many compounds working together, linked by covalent bonding, performing many complex functions in its original occurence; mostly protection and permeability at the same time. The covalent bonds act between molecules to form the net or film, and also bond to the surface that the wax is applied to, usually covalently, but at least in the case of MPPP, cationically (I know this because Meg's states so specifically). The outer surface of the film presents no sites for other molecules to bond to (sometimes, depending on scale, experienced by us physically as "slickness"). I don't know if aminofunctional silicones bond covalently or cationically, I didn't look it up.


Tom