System one....is it...

[weekendwarrior]

I haven't tried System 1, nor do I plan to, but I will probably get one of the 4" System 1 combo pads. It looks like it would be good for polishing headlights.

[themightytimmah]

Any pads will work with S1's polish.

The "magic" of their system has more to do with its user-friendliness than anything else. It works in the sun, doesn't cake up, is very easy to learn a rotary on, and the pads are nifty. However, it won't pull out that last couple percent like a dedicated finishing polish.

Much like Meg's SOLO, Optimum, or any other pad dependent polish, it's the perfect solution for someone, just not me.

[jfsully]

Tod :

I know its not right to get personal on a website BUT, you have already taken shots time and time and time again at Tom and his products.

This post can be deleted if the moderators see fit and I certainly don't want this to turn into a "flamefest"

I think if you had the nerve to show up at Detailfest, you would have had the chance to state your case and quiz Tom up close and personal. You didn't show up and did not see the tremendous job System One did on the Mercedes.

I know because it was (and is) my car and I know the scratches that were on it.

And BTW , how many Pebble Beach Concours cars have you restored and how many Pebble Beach Concours winners do you have? (not just secondary categories)

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by jfsully

Tod :

I know its not right to get personal on a website BUT, you have already taken shots time and time and time again at Tom and his products.

This post can be deleted if the moderators see fit and I certainly don't want this to turn into a "flamefest"

I think if you had the nerve to show up at Detailfest, you would have had the chance to state your case and quiz Tom up close and personal. You didn't show up and did not see the tremendous job System One did on the Mercedes.

I know because it was (and is) my car and I know the scratches that were on it.

And BTW , how many Pebble Beach Concours cars have you restored and how many Pebble Beach Concours winners do you have? (not just secondary categories)

Hi Jfsully, my name is Todd (two d's) but no worries,

I don't think I have made personal attacks about Tom and I am actually shocked you feel that way. I would have no problem asking Tom questions in person, and I have asked them on another forum. Personally it is nice to see an independent person strive to be successful.

However, I am critical of every product out there and strive to research each one before I use them on the cars I detail. Maybe I am overly critical and probably annoying at times, but I give my honest opinion because many have asked me for it.

Again, I don’t' believe I have taken shots at System One or Tom. I do not agree with a lot of what he says, but then again my experience has also led me to disagree with a lot of product manufacturer's. If my experience had been better using System One or have been any different I would have posted it.

However I found System One to be a good (but not great product) polish with a lot of draw backs. It doesn't cut as well as dedicated compound (nor should it be expected) nor does it finish as well as a microscopic diminishing abrasive polish. I prefer to have different tools for the job to dial in my process exactly.

To question my nerve is slightly over the line because I would have asked the same questions on to him as I would have on autogeek and gotten the same answers which I would have disagreed with. I don't see what nerve has to do with anything and why you would have questioned it?

While harder, smaller abrasives (so called NON diminishing abrasive) technology has blurred the line as how much a polish can correct while still finishing nicely, it still is a jack of all trades to me. I agree with TheMightyTimmah posted earlier, it finishes out nice but there’s room for improvement.

For a product to be able to finish out nicely, it can only be so aggressive, so it obviously will not cut as much as an aggressive compound. Also to have the ability to cut paint it can only be so mild. Again the newer abrasives seem to expand this, but this was my original statement and in my experience it is true.

Also I found it be very dusty, I do not see how this is an attack either, it is just an honest opinion.

I am happy that you are satisfied with the results. I know a lot of people that are happy with the results with the local hack n' swirls as well. What I am getting at is I do not know you and your standards and I am glad you are happy, but System One failed my standards. Is that a crime?

To reiterate, I respect Tom for being a business man, for attacking a market, and for taking the time to answer questions that I asked. His products aren't for me or (IMO) anybody looking for the best (IME).

Also I do not restore cars and thus have never restored a Pebble Beach car. However I do high end detailing dealing primarily with Ferrari's and won several platimums, silvers, and trophies at Cavallino (which to many a Ferrari owner is the Pebble Beach for Ferrari's) and have several cars competing at next year's Pebble Beach (including a 1 of 1 Shelby Cobra prototype that was to become the "next" Shelby Cobra).

Anyways, I am sure as to what the question meant but it definitely qualifies me to judge the quality of a detail product I have used (even though it doesn't make my opinion more valuable on any product) the same anybody has the right their opinion. It just means I have very high standards...

BTW, I didn't find your post personal and it would be a shame if it was closed. I don't mind answering questions if you don't mind my terrible spelling.

[Totoland Mach]

As a pretty frequent System One user, I'll chime in with my $0.0002 (after taxes). Todd is pretty much on the mark for System One use. It's a great product for someone looking for a good 1 step (especially one that can be used in the sun). It does produce dust. So do most products out there. However, the dust is non-abrasive like a true compound (3M Extra Cut for example).

At the BMW shop, I use both literally every day. The dealer is a 3M believer, but also recognizes System One as a "good" product. If I'm on a time constraint to get a car done quickly, System One is the product. If the car is going to inventory (especially black cars), 3M is what he requests.

Case-in-Point: I recently did a black BMW 545i that was very scratchy. Lots of wet sanding, then 3M Extra Cut (started with wool and switched to foam for better results), then 3M Dark Glaze, then 3M Ultrafina SE, then Meguiar's #26. A power wash was done between each step. This took 3 complete days and the car is 100% scratch-free.

Right after that, I started on a Black BMW 550i that was lightly scatched (car wash swirls mostly). The dealer got a phone call from a potential buyer that was coming to the shop from out of town and wanted to see the 550i. So, I started at 6:00am with System One. I finished the car with Pinnacle Souveran for depth at 2:30pm the same day (the buyer showed up 45 minutes later).

545i Time: 24 hours
550i Time: 8.5 hours

Both Cars outside





Partial sun on the 550i



Not-so-sunny shot of the 545i



In person, there is better depth of color on the 545i. But, I compensated for that with the use of Souveran on the 550i.

The dusting issue applies to almost every cutting product out there. 3M produces a very abrasive dust that MUST be washed off before proceeding to polish (or you will re-introduce scratches from the residue). System One dust is a non-abrasive powder that you can continue to work on the car and use a foam pad for polishing. In my working environment, that's a big time saver.

I believe Tom has introduced a product that new as well as seasoned pro's could use effectively.

Hope that helps you fine folks.

Totoland

[jfsully]

Thanks for you reply ...and especially, Toto, thanks for yours. I think this help clear up System One..the polish you discuss is just right for it's designed purpose. Toto, from what I am hearing you say, Tom also may be making a new product for the "perfectionist".

Not to try to be a jerk, and I know it will come across that way but some clarification is needed.

I know Cavallino well (I live where its held.) Just to clarify ...you state [I]"However I do high end detailing dealing primarily with Ferrari's and won several platimums, silvers, and trophies at Cavallino" [/i]

I believe the owners of the cars won those events, the restorers brought the cars to the level of perfection and you made sure they weren't dirty, swirly and they shined real nice? (not to minimize that effort because there are many great detailers out there.) The overall contribution you made to any of the cars winning is negligible at best whereas the restoration etc is of paramount importance.

The scoring of the Cavallino says "Therefore, the primary focus of the judging will be on originality, authenticity and condition, with minor emphasis on cosmetics. Deductions will be made for over-restoration; extravagance detracts from originality. Applied patina is discouraged. Spyder conversions and unauthorized rebodies are ineligible for judging. Over-cleanliness is unnecessary; some slight road dust and wear is to be expected. Ferraris are meant to be driven.

Also clarify ""Re: The Road to Cavallino: Ferrari Boxer concours prep, days 1-3 (99 pics)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ir13 View Post
I think this whas there class

Class 8: 365 BB/512 BB – Sponsored by Miller Motorcars

Platinum 1983 512 BBi 43799 Richard Baumgart Singer Island, FL

Platinum 1984 512 BBi 51723 Don Bartz Stuart, FL

Gold 1974 365 GT4/BB 17543 Gene Berns Chicago, IL

Silver 1984 512 BBi 49473 David Eichenbaum St. Petersburg, FL
Correct.

The car in this thread is the one that one silver. It was marked down for incorrect nuts on the battery (no I'm not kidding). I personally think one of the judges was gunning for this car because this car had shown his up pretty bad at a previous show. Even the winners commented that this car was the best looking one there.

I also detailed the Gold winner."

Which platinum winners did you detail? http://www.cavallino.com/images/2008-concorso.pdf

[SuperBee364]

From an outsider's point of view, it sure seems like jfsully is gunning for a fight. Todd's opinion on this product has nothing to do with how important a detailer's job is on a show car. You're startiing to grasp at un-necessary straws. Todd has voiced his opinion in a clear headed, civil manner. I think you need to drop it and move on.

[jfsully]

K...You are probably correct and I will take your advice......I just think false, self-importance is outrageous no matter what the profession.

We should all do our very best no matter what our job. I commend Todd for what appears to be good work. I just think its important to understand that some people have daily drivers that they like to keep up. Those people need products that they can use to get the job done and not necessarily the perfection that a Paul Dalton delivers. There are also people that have show cars. System One is designed for a purpose (as is Vintage, Menzerna etc.)

I also believe its important to point out that we should respect people who restore cars, and respect people that actually understand paint etc. They do have a little bit of knowledge that we can ALL learn from.

Sorry for going overboard.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by jfsully

Thanks for you reply ...and especially, Toto, thanks for yours. I think this help clear up System One..the polish you discuss is just right for it's designed purpose. Toto, from what I am hearing you say, Tom also may be making a new product for the "perfectionist".

Not to try to be a jerk, and I know it will come across that way but some clarification is needed.

I know Cavallino well (I live where its held.) Just to clarify ...you state [I]"However I do high end detailing dealing primarily with Ferrari's and won several platimums, silvers, and trophies at Cavallino" [/i]

I believe the owners of the cars won those events, the restorers brought the cars to the level of perfection and you made sure they weren't dirty, swirly and they shined real nice? (not to minimize that effort because there are many great detailers out there.) The overall contribution you made to any of the cars winning is negligible at best whereas the restoration etc is of paramount importance.

The scoring of the Cavallino says "Therefore, the primary focus of the judging will be on originality, authenticity and condition, with minor emphasis on cosmetics. Deductions will be made for over-restoration; extravagance detracts from originality. Applied patina is discouraged. Spyder conversions and unauthorized rebodies are ineligible for judging. Over-cleanliness is unnecessary; some slight road dust and wear is to be expected. Ferraris are meant to be driven.

Also clarify ""Re: The Road to Cavallino: Ferrari Boxer concours prep, days 1-3 (99 pics)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ir13 View Post
I think this whas there class

Class 8: 365 BB/512 BB – Sponsored by Miller Motorcars

Platinum 1983 512 BBi 43799 Richard Baumgart Singer Island, FL

Platinum 1984 512 BBi 51723 Don Bartz Stuart, FL

Gold 1974 365 GT4/BB 17543 Gene Berns Chicago, IL

Silver 1984 512 BBi 49473 David Eichenbaum St. Petersburg, FL
Correct.

The car in this thread is the one that one silver. It was marked down for incorrect nuts on the battery (no I'm not kidding). I personally think one of the judges was gunning for this car because this car had shown his up pretty bad at a previous show. Even the winners commented that this car was the best looking one there.

I also detailed the Gold winner."

Which platinum winners did you detail? http://www.cavallino.com/images/2008-concorso.pdf

So your point was to judge my knowledge of paint and the validity of my opinion based on how many cars I have restored? Even though I am not a car restorer? Great job. As far the platinum's, even you remember an old thread where I detailed some pretty expensive cars you might have seen two of those cars winning platinums, unforuntately I have been asked not to say more and will respect this clients wishes. If you search F-chat threads you might find your answers as well.

Also, you ignored every point I made.

You also speak out again personal attacks that I never made while purposefuly trying to get under my skin.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by jfsully

K...You are probably correct and I will take your advice......I just think false, self-importance is outrageous no matter what the profession.

We should all do our very best no matter what our job. I commend Todd for what appears to be good work. I just think its important to understand that some people have daily drivers that they like to keep up. Those people need products that they can use to get the job done and not necessarily the perfection that a Paul Dalton delivers. There are also people that have show cars. System One is designed for a purpose (as is Vintage, Menzerna etc.)

I also believe its important to point out that we should respect people who restore cars, and respect people that actually understand paint etc. They do have a little bit of knowledge that we can ALL learn from.

Sorry for going overboard.

Actually my work sucks but I take good pictures so it all works out. I'm not saying I'm right, but can you please provide me with an example of a personal attack on Tom Horvath other then questioning him. Unless respect means asking easy questions, I still fail to see (although I would like to) where I did this.

I stand by my original statements about System One and most people who have used it compared to high end products seem to agree. If this upsets you to the point where you feel the need to call me out, fine, but it has nothing to do with self-importance.

[jfsully]

Todd ...I attempted to stop this at my last post...I must have done a bad job at it.

on the corvette forum you said System One - Advanced Polishing System - Corvette Forum

"Terrible product. I recieved (sp) a sample from autogeek and throw it in the garbage.
It will do what it says kind of (behind the false claims and trick wording). I have never gotten it to finish 100 percent perfect, and it usually requires several passes to remove all of the defects."

Saying someone has "false claims and trick wording" is questioning that persons integrity (IMO)

I think you are a very good detailer and take pride in your work....I believe I was off base and made some personal character attacks...for that I apologize.

enough said about this subject?

[David Fermani]

John - How's the finish holding up? When you're ready for another detail, I'd love to use System 1 on it. When I met Tom @ Detail Fest, I thought he was a great guy & I could have talked to him for hours. Funny thing was, we really didn't talk all that much about his product, more about paint and the refinishing process in general. He's a wealth of knowledge for sure.