Lets all Diet & get in shape

[hockeyplaya13]

Accumulator, I'm similar to you. If I don't get at least 150 grams of protein per day, the muscle just disappears. I have to get upward of 200 to gain weight, and I weigh 180. So yea, each of my meals has close to 40 grams protein.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by hockeyplaya13

Accumulator, I'm similar to you. If I don't get at least 150 grams of protein per day, the muscle just disappears. I have to get upward of 200 to gain weight, and I weigh 180. So yea, each of my meals has close to 40 grams protein.

Most of my MRPs end up having at least that much anyhow, especially if mixed with milk. And for even a quick "little" meal, a can of tuna is about the bare minimum of protein I can get and not leave the table still hungry

Speaking of which I'm gonna go have a MetRx

[EisenHulk]

Accumulator,

I bet I have tried almost every supplement produced the first 6-7 years after I started working out. Most are nothing more than "pie in the sky." Now, I take a good multi-vitamin, fish oil caps, and a quality protein powder that's only used when I'm in a hurry.

Much like life, it's all trial and error. Same with your workout routine. I've seen "freaks" that can train chest three or four times per week and get great results, others can train chest once a week or less and still have a great chest. It's mostly about genetics.

Originally Posted by Accumulator

EisenHulk- Yeah...for a while I played around with heavy supplementation and I will say that I was able to get more lean and muscular than I could without them. But for somebody who doesn't compete it finally seemed silly, spending hundreds of dollars a month for the sort of differences that nobody would ever notice. They might be good for that finishing touch, but when it comes right down to it, just eating right and exercising works mighty well long-term.

Funny how well I respond to creatine though, I'd make a good poster-child for that stuff. And I did get an unexpected growth spurt (at age 47) last year when I started taking MuscleTech's Anator P-70 after my heavier workouts. I was so at how I responded to the P-70 that I've stayed with it.

[Accumulator]

EisenHulk- Oh so true about most supplements, but today's stuff *is* a bit more effective than what we had back in the '80s when I started with this stuff.

I've posted before that taking a bunch of supplements did give me a slight boost in endurance and a slight drop in bodyfat, but it sure wasn't worth the several hundred bucks I was spending every month.

Wonder if that MuscleTech Anator P-70 would work for you I sure didn't expect it to do anything for me but man was I wrong about that (ditto for the NO2 supplements).

And I also agree about how different people are with regard to what workouts they do best with. If people would just *exercise* period, and see what works for *them* and then *stick with it*....I guess what bugs me is when people don't study this stuff enough to understand it and/or don't apply common sense ("I trained for years without any progress..." and/or "I used to work out, but...").

Edit: OH, and just get me going about the fishoil!! I've been taking near-megadoses of the stuff for years, and it's sure improved my quality of life. Rendered me basically hangover-proof too Wish I'd discovered it when I was younger!

[Stanger'66]

Well, I have been working pretty hard for the past week since finals have ended. My diet has completely changed and I'm now 5 meals per day rather than 3. A lot of cottage cheese, tuna, milk, eggs, and chicken breast. I usually make my second meal a protein shake which falls directly after my morning routine. I would like to cut and build at the same time but I know that is hard/impossible. A lot of fruits have also been in my diet. I upped the resistance on the cardio quite a bit and have been doing that everyday for 25 mins before my workout. The machine usually displays an approximation of 400-450 calories burned. I know this probably isn't good diet wise since I am trying to up the caloric intake, but I don't want to have bulk and no cut. Not really sure what to do here. I recently started working in 3 sets of squats at 8 reps each every other day. Boy did that ever wake me up! Feels good though. Hopefully I will start showing some progress in the next couple of weeks. Anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm open for any workout and/or diet suggestions you have for me. I'm really starting to get into this and it feels great.

[Accumulator]

Stanger '66- Sounds like you're getting squared away, and with finals behind you things should be a little easier.

Building muscle while losing fat isn't easy, but it *can*be done. My wife did it to a pretty incredible extent during one of the "Body-4-LIFE" transformation contests- her overall weight went up even though she was getting much leaner. You're on the right track with the good diet and regular workouts, just remember that this usually takes time.

On the squats, I lean more towards the kind of leg workouts where you simply cannot do another one for a while. After 2-3 days my legs quit being really sore (I can do my next cardio session 2-3 days after my leg workout), but they're still not ready for more squats. What you're doing might be OK for you, but it wouldn't work that great for *me*, so just keep an eye on your progress and adjust as necessary. Progress is the best indicator of how you're doing; if your performance quits getting better you need to change something.

Remember to work your hamstrings. Too many people end up overdeveloping their quads relative to their hams, and that's murder on the knees.

Other than that my advice is simply to be patient. Heh heh, easier said that done, huh?

[hockeyplaya13]

If you are trying to cut then you might want to look into supplements (Hydroxycut, Hydroxycut Hardcore). I haven't used any, so I don't know if they work well or anything, but you might want to consider them. The only thing is that they should be used to speed up the cutting process. You should not count on them to do the cutting for you. If you do, once you quit using them you will just put back on all the fat again. You need to make sure you are getting plenty of cardio and a good diet (which it seems like you are).

[Stanger'66]

Good to know that it cutting and gaining can be done. I'm sure the results vary for everyone. As for the squats, I skipped a day because I could barely walk. It was my first time for squats and I was rubber legged on the day of the workout and sore as hell the day after. I am still a little sore today but I did the squats anyway and bumped the weight by 10 lbs. I guess I'll see if that is going to work for me or not. What do you suggest to work the hamstrings? Also, I am really looking to cut my abs but everything I read says that crunches are a waste of time and that abs are made in the kitchen. Do you guys feel the same way?

As for using supplements to cut, I would rather avoid that. I can't really afford it and I get a little nervous about using too many supplements. Thanks for the suggestion though. I may look into it further if I don't see any results and have a little more cash.

Oh, one more thing. Like I said, I don't have a bunch of money to throw into my diet so I've been eating a lot of normal foods and a few protein shakes. I've been using the Body Fortress whey protein from Target. Its only about $13 for 2 lbs so I figured I would try it. Do you guys have any experience with it? What is the difference in protein supplements and what makes one better than another? Whew, sorry for all of the questions. I just want to make sure I do this right and don't waste too much time/money/energy.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by Stanger'66

..As for the squats, I skipped a day because I could barely walk. It was my first time for squats and I was rubber legged on the day of the workout and sore as hell the day after. I am still a little sore today but I did the squats anyway and bumped the weight by 10 lbs...

The soreness sounds good. See how things progress...IMO it's better to get in good/effective but *infrequent* workouts than to do less effective workouts more often. Generally, I don't work a muscle group that's still sore, but I suspect that some of what you're experiencing is just your body gettting used to squatting.

Just see how it goes.

What do you suggest to work the hamstrings?

I do three different movements for hams (in addition to the squats, which'll hit 'em pretty good if you go down low enough): good mornings, Romanian deadlifts, and leg curls (gotta have a leg curl machine for those though). I go more for stretch on the first two and for *holding the contraction* on the leg curls and I don't worry too much about the amount of weight.

(If any of those exercises are unfamiliar to you, let me know and I'll explain them.)

Also, I am really looking to cut my abs but everything I read says that crunches are a waste of time and that abs are made in the kitchen. Do you guys feel the same way?

To a point. You gotta get the fat off or it'll just cover up your abs. But as you get older it gets more important to work the abs as it seems like you get an "abdominal bulge" even if you're very lean. I sure have to work my abs more in my late 40's than I did 20 years ago! For you, I'd try to do ab exercises that strengthen things down there, and that means tough exercises for lowish reps. As long as you do short sets of few reps, the muscles won't grow in a way that could make you "thick" down there; doing most any exercise for under 20 seconds makes the muscles get stronger without growing much in size. Strong abs = healthy back

Note that this is very different advice from the normal "do a zillion crunches/situps/etc." The super-high-rep stuff a) never made sense to me as the abdominals are fast-twitch muscle fibers (designed to do hard work for short periods), b) never gave me the results I wanted anyhow, and c) is a drag...all those reps, yuck. But hey, everyone is different...at least to some degree.

What is the difference in protein supplements and what makes one better than another?

No experience with that protein powder Proteins that agree with you don't give you gas, make you feel sick to your stomach, etc. Other than that, I just go by what I enjoy (short answer: MetRx).

Whey works quickly and some others like egg whites are sorta "time release". But don't worry *too* much about that sort of thing; it's easy to over-analyze this stuff.

I just want to make sure I do this right and don't waste too much time/money/energy.

That's the way to approach it Gotta find what'll work *for you* long-term so you stay in shape your whole life. Too much time/money/energy and sooner or later you're gonna blow it off and that's the start of ending up like most people.

[Stanger'66]

Wow, thanks for all the advice Accumulator. I skipped squats this morning to let my quads rest. They were burning pretty good after the bike ride last night but feel much better today. I think you are right about my body getting used to squatting, squats really woke me up. I tried to do leg curls this morning but I get a pronounced tingly feeling in my feet like I've cut off blood flow. Is this normal? It was bothering me so I quit after just a couple reps. It may have just been the machine though. The gym has a few different leg curl machines so I will try another one. I'm not familiar with Romanian deadlifts so if you could educate me on them, that would be great. Thanks for the advice on the abs, it sounds like I am headed in the right direction. I used to do hundreds of regular crunches but I've switched to doing weighted crunches with less reps. Right now I'm doing about 30 with feet down, 30 with feet on bars, and 30 with feet in the air. I usually follow this with my favorite ab machine and do about 3 sets of 15 with some decent weight. Is this still too many reps, should I lower reps and raise the weight? Unfortunately, I didn't eat very well today so I'll have to get back at that tomorrow. I ate breakfast and my post workout protein shake but my lunch was small and I missed the 2:00 meal. What I ate was healthy, but I didn't eat much. Could I throw in an 8:00-9:00 meal(or shake) to make up the difference, or should I not worry about it? I really appreciate all the help Accum. I've got the drive to do this, but before now, I didn't have the information to execute it.

[Accumulator]

Stanger'66- Don't worry about not eating clean all the time...keeping this stuff reasonable is how you can make it work long-term. Heh heh, I myself just got home from a big Denny's breakfast I don't worry about catching up or otherwise doing anything special when I miss/overdo a meal, I think more long-term than that and in ten years it'll never matter

See how the other legcurl machines work for you. I never got the weird feeling in my feet I'm trying to think of how the blood flow goes into the feet (I'd probably have to check my anatomy book) but I wouldn't *expect* it to be a matter of cutting off the blood supply. Probably more a case of pinching a nerve or something like that. As you develop your calves this might resolve itself (note that you need to do both standing and seated calf raises, each works a different part of the lower leg).

Romanian deadlifts are kinda like straight/stiff-legged deads except that you flex the knees a little bit. Think of it as a kinda loose-style stiff-legged dead.

Keep an arch in your back, really *lock it in* so you don't strain your lower back. Get a slight bend in your knees, just enough that you're not quite keeping your legs straight. Lower the bar down by bending at the waist until you feel the stretch in your hams and then go back up- you should feel the stress shift from your hams to your glutes. At the top you might want to straighten out a bit at the knees, but don't make it a big deal where you're doing some complicated stuff with a lot of shifting your body around. You should *NOT* feel a lot of stress in your lower back, but you will feel a bit.

To keep the stress on your back minimal, keep the weight close to the centerline of your body: with a barbell, keep it close to (or even touching) your shins and thighs; with dumbbells, hold them at your sides and try to keep them from swinging too far forward or back.

It's important that you keep your back "tight" so you don't turn this into a lower back-stressing exercise. As you can probably imagine, it's a kinda fine line here since you're bending at the lower back! Use a light weight and feel how the stresses shift and keep the "hams and glutes" target in mind.

Don't try to lower the bar too far down. In time you'll get more flexible and you'll be able to lower the bar lower, but if you try to overdo this you'll probably end up rounding your back to get the bar down lower and that'll put you at risk of a back injury. I think you'll find that some very light/easy work will result in significant delayed-onset muscle soreness, so don't worry if it seems like you didn't do anything productive.

If you do the Romanian deads with an olympic bar, try it with just the bare (~45 lbs) bar. If you do it with dumbbells, try it with something really light like a pair of 20s. I know, that's hardly anything, but you'll get the groove of the movement figured out and just the unusual stretching will probably make you a little sore the next day. Keep the reps around 15-20 while you're learing the movement and then, when you're using heavier weight, try to keep them below 15.

Your ab work sounds fine. My ultra-low-rep work was just what worked for me when I was younger. Keep an eye on your abs and try to feel them working; getting the lowermost portion of the abs involved is usually the biggest challenge.

[Stanger'66]

I appreciate all of the suggestions but I haven't been able to use them for the last few days. I guess my diet is as good as I thought it was cause I've been suffering from hemorrhoids for the past few days. Too much protein intake and not enough fiber. So I am now shopping for a fiber supplement to throw in my protein shakes. I haven't really worked out in about 4 days due to the strain. Hopefully I'll be back on the workout strong next week. It sucks because I feel stronger than I've ever been. The dedication is already paying off, but I need to get back at it. I never expected this to be holding me back...