Lets all Diet & get in shape

[NCZ13]

so after exactly a week of starting this. my current weight is 194.3

ive been eating less. and drinking more water.

so im obviously losing something =)

[Stanger'66]

Thanks alot Accumulator. Proper dieting seems to be complicated and to be quite honest I feel lost but your post helped. The 6'11" was a mistype, sorry. 5'11" is my height. I just got back from the gym and feel great but a few of the machines reminded me of my weak areas, chest and back especially. The sleep issue has been one of my problems since I have been working on homework until 2 or 3 in the morning and then getting back up at 7 for classes. I hate to skimp on my nutrition but I don't have much money and can't afford expensive protein mixes. What is the best bang for the buck?

[Accumulator]

Stanger'66- Heh heh, I'd *wondered* if that was a typo OK...150-160 at your height is about where I was before I got more serious about this stuff.

Sorry, but I'm *NOT* the guy to ask about bang-for-buck supplements, I buy according to taste and how well I digest them.

Sounds like maybe you oughta stick with regular foods and lots of milk. Note that guys got big and strong for ages before today's miracle products ever came out

It *is* complicated, huh? Nobody wants to sit around making up spreadsheets and doing a lot of [crap] every time they eat! Try to eat the protein every few hours, and also have some carbs/fat- you'll have a bit more of the latter than of the protein and IMO it's OK to just eyeball it. It's not like you need to be all that precise about it, just try to eat small balanced meals throughout the day. Gotta make it reasonable so you can make it a normal routine; anything that's too fancy will be hard to stick with (say, for the rest of your life ).

FWIW, the best things I ever did were:

- switch to freeweights instead of machines whenever possible

- make barbell squats the foundation of my entire workout program (as the saying goes, "if you want big arms, do heavy squats". It's true, squats benefit the whole body)

- make regular, intense, interval-training cardio a regular part of my life (OK, maybe that was more important for me than it is for you at this stage of your life)

- read up on physiology so I learned how muscles work and how to best exercise them. BTW, I found that *so* much of the stuff I'd read by "bodybuilding experts" wasn't true...sorta explained why what I'd been doing hadn't worked well for me

- make it a point to eat those frequent, small meals instead of just a few big ones

FWIW, when you *do* want to spend some money on supplements, I found that creatine *really* worked great for me (still does). Made all my workouts go better (especially my cardio for some reason) and added a *lot* of size/weight- I gained nearly 10 lbs and broke through a plateau that'd been stumping me for years. This was back when creatine first came out, before the fancy and expensive (and admittedly better) versions that're available today- and today the "plain" creatine is pretty cheap.

Oh, and if you're tall and thin, you might want to prioritize your forearms and grip. Building up the lower arm and wrist area can make a big difference in your everyday appearance, and it has a lot of functional benefits too.

The sleep issue *might* just be something you'll have to live with while you're in school..but I hope your career doesn't perpetuate it. Most people really do function best on ~8 hours of sleep, and I found that I often need even more than *that*.

[EisenHulk]

Very good info, Accumulator.

Stanger, supplements for the most part, are highly overrated. You can't go wrong with a lot of eggs, chicken, fish, oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes, lean red meat, and your green veggies.

[Showroom Shine]

I 've been working out since 1981. Liked it so much,started competing as an amatuer. Got bit by the Bug. Liked my results. I live in Col, Oh. The home of the Arnold Classic. I've been every year since 86 or 87. I admire the work and dedication that is needed to get to that level. All competitors, Men and Woman have great genetics,and of course they have a little added help too.Not to bad mouth them. Use all the juice you want and don't work out you'll be a fat slob.
I still hit the weights often. At almost 51 I still feel Great. Having trouble posting my pic. Maybe another time>

[Accumulator]

Showroom Shine- I'm always glad to see you posting on these threads....when you're able to stay in shape for decades, well, then whatever you're doing works for you Sorta fun, huh...disproving everybody who said how we'd never stay in shape after we turn 30..then 40...then...

EisenHulk- Yeah...for a while I played around with heavy supplementation and I will say that I was able to get more lean and muscular than I could without them. But for somebody who doesn't compete it finally seemed silly, spending hundreds of dollars a month for the sort of differences that nobody would ever notice. They might be good for that finishing touch, but when it comes right down to it, just eating right and exercising works mighty well long-term.

Funny how well I respond to creatine though, I'd make a good poster-child for that stuff. And I did get an unexpected growth spurt (at age 47) last year when I started taking MuscleTech's Anator P-70 after my heavier workouts. I was so at how I responded to the P-70 that I've stayed with it.

[victory]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

EisenHulk- Yeah...for a while I played around with heavy supplementation and I will say that I was able to get more lean and muscular than I could without them. But for somebody who doesn't compete it finally seemed silly, spending hundreds of dollars a month for the sort of differences that nobody would ever notice. They might be good for that finishing touch, but when it comes right down to it, just eating right and exercising works mighty well long-term.

Funny how well I respond to creatine though, I'd make a good poster-child for that stuff. And I did get an unexpected growth spurt (at age 47) last year when I started taking MuscleTech's Anator P-70 after my heavier workouts. I was so at how I responded to the P-70 that I've stayed with it.

Yeah, i'm the same way with creatine, and i used walmart 100% creatine monohydrate (make sure it's pure, no flavors, no nothing) which is dirt cheap and all that stuff is pretty much the same in my experience. One trick with the stuff is to actually know how to calculate dosages for loading and maintenance based on your lean mass. By lean mass i mean figure out your body fat percentage and subtract that from your weight. If you weigh 190 and are 16% body fat, you should be dosing for 160lbs. You use significantly less product and get the same gains, because you muscles can only store so much and you fat stores nothing. The less excess you take, the less has to be taken out through your kidneys. 5 days of loading and i'll gain 10lbs and keep it on throughout the maintenance cycle. The reason i've used it is because, aside from the larger looking muscles, creatine helps with ATP synthesis and increases your stores. This means longer bursts of strength more often. Pretty important for someone who does martial arts.

I just weighed myself today and i was 187. This is down from slightly over 250 and i did this all with no weight loss supplementation, just diet and exercise. This is almost 10lbs lighter than i was my junior year of high school. I'd like to get down to 180 before i go back on creatine and start bulking up again. If i get this last bit of fat off before bulking, I'll look like a freaking monster.

As far as protein powder, figure out what your intake is and figure out what you need. A lot of bodybuilding "experts" will tell you 1-2g/lb, but they're absolutely full of **** and you're killing your kidneys. Normal RDA is 0.8g/kg and hardcore athletes should be taking around 1.4g/kg to maintain a positive balance. As for what i like. Trader Joes brand of whey protein powder is actually good tasting and fairly inexpensive. It's also packed full of vitamins and minerals.

[Accumulator]

Victory- Good info on the creatine

I've always done best taking a few smaller doses throughout the day, and yeah, some of those recommendations to take in huge amounts are pretty bad advice.

On the protein intake, my experiences have been different (and I've tracked this stuff carefully at various times). When I drop my protein intake down that low the muscle simply melts off of me 1g per lb of lean weight is bare minimum just to maintain in my case so the 1.4/kg lean wouldn't be enough for me. Guess everybody's different (oh, and yeah, my kidney function is fine) and my version of year-in-year-out "daily activity" is possibly kinda extreme by most standards.

During a two-week period a few years ago, I upped my protein intake to ~2 grms/lb lean and while my bodyfat went up ~1.5% I also gained something like 8 lbs of muscle! I forget the specifics (I'd have to look up the actual figures) but it was really dramatic, as if I were on the juice... Pretty surprising for a guy in his 40s who'd been training for decades. Even after I leaned back down I kept enough size that my tailor and shirtmaker had to change a few dimensions.

You brought up a good point that I've stressed here before- people oughta know their body composition and give thought to the lean/fat that they have instead of just watching their body weight.

[victory]

I worded that wrong. Excess protein will not "kill" your kidneys. It will make them work overtime, however. While this isn't likely to harm a healthy kidney, you have to really watch your fluid balance as it's very easy to become dehydrated as your kidneys work to take out that extra protein. If you're pissing out excess protein, you're flushing your supplement dollars down the toilet, just like you would be taking supplement label size creatine doses. Even for people who strength train and have a high level of activity, this is happening around 1.8g/kg. You may have noticed your urine a little frothier than normal those two weeks you were going heavy, that's what it was.

Everyone should really do their research before any kind of supplementation and, even better, talk to a physician. Just note that when you're doing research online, places recommending 1-2g/lb generally end in .com and have a link to purchase xyz brand supplements. The ones giving more realistic numbers tend to end in .edu. Read some of the studies out there. Pay special attention to parts on protein oxidation as this really explains why greater intake really isn't as important as timing your intake.

[Accumulator]

victory- Yeah, I understand about the kidneys simply working overtime. I think it was the New England Journal of Medacine that had that study showing that excess protein is OK given healthy kidneys and adequate hydration. Might have been some other journal (Journal of Applied Physiology?), I can't quite remember but it pretty much put to rest the idea that too much protein is harmful. I only mentioned my kidney function to show it wasn't some wildcard situation/explanation.

Good point about timing the intake instead of simply increasing it- that's probably what worked so well for me, taking in moderate amounts very frequently. It was a hassle to say the least though (slow-digesting protein right before bed, another dose in the middle of the night, etc.)- not something I'm gonna do for long.

Trying to up my intake just right, so I could gain the muscle but not the fat, would be such a hassle I've simply blown off the idea. Just eating right 5-6 times every day is hassle enough for me, even with MRPs. It *sounds* easy enough, but still...so I'm currently gaining about a pound of muscle per year, hardly anything, but at least I'm not going downhill Meanwhile, my cardio gets *better* every year.

Getting good medical advice can be easier said than done too! I'm currently trying to find a new MD as my previous guy transfered to "in-hospital only" care; too bad as he was pretty good. But, heh heh, like most people I meet in the medical profession, he usually ended up asking *me* questions about fitness and nutrition (I sometimes think I've read some medical journals/studies more carefully than he did ). Unfortunately, most of the medical pros in my area seem to *need* advice about this stuff and I'm simply astounded by how little they seem to know about all kinds of things. Same with the people who've done my bodycomp tests, and they make their living advising other people. IMO every one of 'em oughta know tons more than *I* do.

[victory]

You know, having to space out your protein intake to get the 2g/lb you were taking in is probably what got you those results, not the excess product. Spaced out as meticulously, you'd probably see those great results with significantly less. This may very well be where that bad advice comes from. These bodybuilders aren't drinking a half gallon of protein shake before working out, they're eating protein all the time to get those huge (and unnecessary) doses. They then proceed to fall into the more is better mentality rather than recognizing that the constant, slow intake is what's getting those results.

It is amazing how much bad infor gets passed about as health and fitness advice. My only medical background is working on a medic unit for the past 6 years and 2 years of nursing school before i dropped out and changed majors. I just know how to check sources and research the hell out of every single thing i put into my body.

Oh, and the 6 meals per day thing is a pain in the butt, but i lost about 20lbs my first 3 weeks doing it and another 20 in the next 7 with only a basis calisthenics routine. Tiny, well balanced meals, spaced out across the day, is the way to go in my mind for loosing fat and gaining muscle. If you think about it from a historical standpoint, it makes sense. Man is no different that he was tens of thousands of years ago and back then, and for hundreds of thousands of years before that, the routine was scavenging food wherever you can find it all day long. Our metabolisms are still built for that lifestyle.

[Accumulator]

victory- Yeah, the small meals *do* simply make more sense in every way. After eating that way for years I'm pretty used to it (even if I so still complain about the hassle), but it's sure hard to convince others do go that route.

I admit I when people are "too busy" to do what's right with regard to diet and fitness. When I hear "it's easy for *you* to do that, but I don't have that much time" I think "yeah, right...if you had an extra hour in every day I suppose you'd be at the squat rack right now"

You and I'll have to agree to disagree on the amount of protein though..again, I tracked my intake very closely while getting body-comped weekly; even with the frequent meals, I simply need more than that. Your recommendation for me at that time would've been ~13.5 grams at each of eight meals, and I couldn't *maintain* max size at ~15 grams, simply didn't work. Might sound improbable, but I'm talking carefully monitored, first-hand experience For the past few years (only eating 5-6 times a day), I've gone with ~40 grams/meal and yeah, I know I'm wasting some of that but it comes down to what works OK for me year after year and I'm not gonna argue with long-term success. Anyhow, my MRPS taste best when I mix 'em the way I do, and my real-food meals are usually pretty big