honda or toyota? - Page 2

rfinkle2 · 10-06-05, 06:16

agreed concerning the toyota discussed above by rob d ... something i've noticed recently is that Toyota needs to step up the overall design of their cars, both interior and exterior. For example, I just purchased a Ford F150 after trading in a Toyota Tundra and the F150 has it all over the Tundra, especially interior design.

If you ask me, Dodge absolutely has been the innovator in exterior design for @ least 5 years now.

I do feel, that although some Japanese cars lack in design, they make up for in long term reliability.

an interesting thing i read was that the Volkswagen Beetle has been on the list of the consumer reports worst used cars for a while now... (i was a little surprised)

kgb · 10-06-05, 06:54

And the one thing you won't get with a Honda or Toyota is TORQUE! Another reason why I like the Subaru.

awdirtdrifter · 10-06-05, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgb

And the one thing you won't get with a Honda or Toyota is TORQUE! Another reason why I like the Subaru.

Honda especially does tend to make smaller displacement motors, making for great gas mileage, but alas, torque is not free. But Honda makes their engines so efficient that you get so much horsepower--you just gotta keep the revs high. Great cars, great engines.

LightngSVT · 10-06-05, 07:48

I grew up in an American car household and until I was 30 (2 years ago) I only owned Ford. I find myself looking at cars now and realize that only2 on the list are American (Lincol LS and Mustang GT) and it kind of shocked. I dont find the styling of Toyota or Honda very appealing honestly, they are a little bland. Now Subaru and Nissan have some nice looking vehicles. I know you cant beat the Japenese for reliability.

One thing I have alwasy wondered is why the "Big 3" (hey Im from the Detroit Area) have not tried to steal away designers, engineers, etc form the Japenese companies so that they can learn new proecesses and improve their vehile lines? But I will say the Americans have come a long way, look at the new Ford Fusion and the reviews its getting, Look at the 500 (huge and can still get 21/29mpg with just over 200hp), look at most anything from Daimler-Chrysler, GM well............

Picus · 10-06-05, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgb

And the one thing you won't get with a Honda or Toyota is TORQUE! Another reason why I like the Subaru.

Yes. Same reason I'm a Nissan fan. The VQ engine has gobs of torque and is in almost every one of their cars from the Altima, to the Maxima, to the G35, to the M35. It's an incredible engine, and like Subaru they seem to be geared more towards performance and "fun to drive" than just reliable econo-boxes.

RE: Domestics. It's clear I have a strong Japanese bias, but I have really been impressed with some domestics lately. The Ford Fusion is is perfect example - good styling, nice fit and finish, a great engine with lots of room to grow, and it undercuts it's japanese comptitors on price. I drove one, and while it's not for me, I was pleasantly surprised.

RE: Germans. Tough to bunch them together, imo. BMW's and MB are in a difference class all together than saw, a VW. I owned 6 VW's in a row but had to lemon the last two. VW has the third lowest CS in the industry and the second highest lemon rate (and highest recall rate) per vehicle. I am hoping this new generation turns it around for them.

SpoiledMan · 10-06-05, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picus

Yes. Same reason I'm a Nissan fan. The VQ engine has gobs of torque and is in almost every one of their cars from the Altima, to the Maxima, to the G35, to the M35. It's an incredible engine, and like Subaru they seem to be geared more towards performance and "fun to drive" than just reliable econo-boxes.

The VQ in this Nissan Murano I'm driving right now as a rental sure doesn't feel like it has gobs of torque. As a matter of fact, my Honda van seems like a racecar in comparison. It's a nice engine but I have *NEVER* heard pinging from any of my Honda cars no matter what kind of gas was in them. This thing pings regularly. I wont even mention the CVT tranny that's in it.

jnmttu · 10-06-05, 09:31

I think I fall into that "read my signature" category.

the other pc · 10-06-05, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightngSVT

I grew up in an American car household and until I was 30 (2 years ago)...One thing I have alwasy wondered is why the "Big 3" (hey Im from the Detroit Area) have not tried to steal away designers, engineers, etc form the Japenese companies so that they can learn new proecesses and improve their vehile lines?....

They do snitch a few people here and there and when they have corporate partnerships, Ford/Mazda, GM/Toyota, etc. there's some crosspollination but by and large you don't see major changes of style/approach/attitude.

It's actually not just auto manufacturing, all US industries that whine about "Japanese Quality" kicking their butts have the same issues.

IMHO it's all philosophical. The management styles, methodologies, cultures and behavior patterns of those companies are so deeply ingrained they miss the point. They can't even comprehend where they need to change, much less implement the changes. If they stole the best and brightest from some other outfit all they'd do is stifle them the same way they'd been crushing any hope of progress from the people they already have.

Typically, any changes that do happen occur very slowly as attrition removes the people causing roadblocks and, with any luck, replaces them with new blood and new ways of thinking.

Side note; Chrysler turned its R&D upside down and went form from K-cars and other peoples designs (old Jeeps) to Vipers, PTs, Magnums, new Jeeps, etc. after a huge internal power struggle that finally managed to install a French Formula 1 engineer in charge of things.

PC.

pt91 · 10-06-05, 10:21

a vote for Honda/Acura

kgb · 10-06-05, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

The VQ in this Nissan Murano I'm driving right now as a rental sure doesn't feel like it has gobs of torque. As a matter of fact, my Honda van seems like a racecar in comparison. It's a nice engine but I have *NEVER* heard pinging from any of my Honda cars no matter what kind of gas was in them. This thing pings regularly. I wont even mention the CVT tranny that's in it.

246 lb-ft of torque @ 4,400 rpm for the Murano and 240 @ 4500 for the higher end Odysseys.
The VQ in the Z350 274 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm

JohnnyDaJackal · 10-06-05, 11:07

Depends on what kind of car your looking at.

I think Honda has nicer cars all around, but as far as trucks I think Toyota has got that formula down.

IMO I think of them two as some of the best/dependable cars made, based just on friend's/family's and my experiences with domestics and imports.

A little OT but Lexus's new IS250/350 are *VERY* nice. I would definately consider one just because of how comfortable I was in it. I was on cloud 9

SpoiledMan · 10-06-05, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgb

246 lb-ft of torque @ 4,400 rpm for the Murano and 240 @ 4500 for the higher end Odysseys.
The VQ in the Z350 274 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm

I was using the butt dyno. Strictly what the two engines "feel" like. OTOH the VQ is rather fuel thirsty too. The little trip computer hasn't made it over 17.x even on the highway no matter how nice I drive the thing. Nice engine but I just don't really find to be "all that."