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Old 08-25-03, 05:43   #1 (permalink)
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Post How to sell an Autopian car

We care well for our cars. Really well. So well that it is hard for the used car market to understand and appropriately value our vehicles.

When I sold my last car, I had to wait about 3 weeks until someone would even see it. Why? Because I set a high asking price for a car of that age and mileage. And guess what? That car sold to the first person who saw it--and at near the asking price!

I'm creating this thread as a sort of record of my experience—from beginning to end--so others can benefit from it. I haven't seen any threads like it here.

The situation is this:

My wife is bored with her mint, low mileage 2001 Civic. She has agreed to learn stick shift (yippee!), and we will take delivery on a 2004 MINI Cooper S in September. Meanwhile, the Civic needs to be sold.

The dealer offered us “wholesale” for the car as a trade-in—what a joke! So we are selling it privately. Here are my steps

1. Two weeks ago, I borrowed some money from savings and paid off the loan. The title is now in our hands. This makes for a much easier transaction.

2. I began detailing the car to concours standards about the same time. New hubcaps were purchased on eBay (curb rash), wheel wells cleaned with wheels removed, undercarriage cleaned using jack stands…you get the idea. Only flaws are some door dings…after much deliberation I’ve decided NOT to repair them. Repair would only add to the asking price, and I’d rather the new buyer make the decision about spending money to repair such tiny defects. The car is now ready for sale.

3. Purchased a CarFax record for the car. Came out clean, as expected. To my delight, they even provide a public URL where anyone can view the record for free! I had no idea.

4. I priced the car. I took the “Black Book” retail number and subtracted $1,000. This is a high price, but we are in no hurry and as you know a buyer will only haggle down, not up. Hopefully when they see how mint the car is the price can stay pretty firm.

5. I took lots of pictures and posted them to a web site. You can check it out at http://home.comcast.net/~charlesgor...Civic/civic.htm (Please don’t take this thread in any way as an advertisement; I can remove this link if anyone accuses me of that. I just think this is a nice example of what you can do)

6. I put an ad up in cars.com. Pretty easy to use. I opted for the "premium" service for $45, which includes 9 pictures. Unfortunately the pictures are pretty small, but at least it makes the listing stand out a bit better. You can see it here:
http://www.cars.com/search/used/cc/...n&src=&cid=null

7. Here is the sales history:

8/25: Listed on Cars.com for $13,350 ($55 for ad)
8/28: Price lowered to $12,990
9/1: Price lowered to $12,690, Ad placed on Craigslist.com (free)
9/1: Built a web page for the car
9/1: Craigslist ad gets an email inquiry, bottom feeder
9/3: Call responding to cars.com, says will see on weekend
9/4: Price lowered to $12,490
9/6: 9/3 caller sees car, drives it, likes it, but apparently not interested (didn't make an offer). I think it was a tire kicker.
9/9: Ad placed on Autotrader.com for $12,490 ($70 for ad)
9/12: Still no calls. Price lowered to $12,390.
9/15: Still no calls. Price lowered to $12,290.
9/18: Call responding to AutoTrader.com ad, wants to see
9/19: Yesterday's caller comes, loves car, agrees to purchase. Problem is we're going on a week vacation. Buyer says to call on return, perfect for him as he needs time to get the money anyway. I ask for $100 to remove my ads, he doesn't have it. I tell him I will keep the ads up but will call him first when he gets back.
9/20: Call from unknown source asks about car. I tell him the car is probably sold, take his number.
9/28: Back from vacation. Original buyer tells me he may have lost his job (yeah, right? Actually I sort of believe him), tells me to wait a day for details. I do.
9/29: Definitely a no-go on this buyer. I call the 9/20 guy; he already bought a car.
9/30: Price lowered to $12,190. Now I am getting cynical. This price is beyond fair, well under $1,000 less than dealers.
10/1: Caller says he is interested, would like to see on the weekend. I never find out where he found the ad.
10/4: 10/1 caller comes out to look/drive car. Has a color printout of my web page! Light rain is kind of a shame because it hides the try paint quality, but with Aquapel on the windows and a full Klasse/P21S treatment it is beading the water wonderfully. Test drive is good, buyer makes a lowball offer of about $1,000 less than asking. I tell him that $12k is a take-it-or-leave-it price (a reduction from my $12,190 advertised). He counters with a printout of a Blue Book which shows something like $11,560. I explain that the car is the best cared for he will find in the area, and basically thank him for his time. To my surprise, the deal is clinched on that! Buyer will call in a couple days for final arrangements.
10/6: Buyer contacts me, would like to close deal soon except I insist on a cashier's check. I do some homework on him anyway, checking out address, phone number, etc.
10/8: My wife and I deliver the car in the evening. Buyer goes over car with a flashlight, comments about how clean it is ("has this even been driven in the winter?")
10/15: Check clears. End of story. See post-sale remarks below.

Postscript: Ironically, I have kept the ads going in Autotrader.com and Cars.com (at $12,190) but have gotten NO CALLS! I was thinking of lowering the price on the ads to different levels to see what happens, but that's not really fair to people and would be too strange if the new owner found out.

Last edited by BoxsterCharlie : 10-15-03 at 06:07.
 
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Old 08-25-03, 12:18   #2 (permalink)
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One thing I have learned, most dealers only offer wholesale value for trades, any trade. Does not matter what year, make, or model it is. They could care less what condition it's in, or how many miles it has. Then they usually turn around and put it on the lot for double what they payed for it.

More or less, they want you to pay full retail, and they pay you wholesale. There car is worth everything, yours is worth nothing. Ahh, the wonderful dealer buying process. I will NEVER trade a car in again, EVER.

Good luck with selling the Civic.
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Old 08-25-03, 12:49   #3 (permalink)
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Recently, my wife and I traded in our Autopian 2001 Infiniti QX4 and a 2002 MBZ C240 Sedan. Both places fell over when they saw the condition of the cars. I received $2500 over bluebook on the QX4 and $2000 over bluebook for the C240. Both which were way over wholesale. It helps to take the car to the same type of dealer to get the most for your trade-in. (We traded Infiniti for Infiniti, and MBZ for MBZ). Car dealers like repeat business. My father has ben in the business for over 20 years now, and usually advises me on all of my purchases. He agrees that they were both great deals.

Good luck...
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Old 08-25-03, 01:13   #4 (permalink)
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Both of these comments make sense. The MINI dealer was very clear that I should sell the Civic myself, since they are very small and obviously don't sell any used cars. It also doesn't help that the MINI is an MSRP sale, no bargaining to be had. (We have been on the waiting list since April)

It's too bad, since in my state you only pay sales tax on the trade-in difference.
 
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Old 08-25-03, 02:06   #5 (permalink)
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Boxster Charlie, a fellow Metro-Wester!!! I am in Framingham...Yes, car dealers make little money off brand new vehicles, but make a killing off of trade-in's, primarily because most people do not want to take the time of listing a car, showing it to dead beats, joyriders, etc (in my case if I ever sold the Cobra). The dealers will take almost anything off your hands, pay off your loan, etc. So while you do not have to haggle with potential buyers, list the car, the tradeoff is getting ripped on the trade-in. For some people, its worth it.

For me, and many Autopians alike, it is worth the full day of detailing, ad creation and $100 or so in ad fees to get as much money back from your car as possible. This weekend I will be giving my mom's old Subaru SVX the full treatment for a post on eBay and the local paper.
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Old 08-25-03, 02:43   #6 (permalink)
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Whoa! two in a row in Mass! I had a Massachusetts detailers thread up awhile ago, only had three people respond other than me.

Anyway, yeah, it's definitely worth the time to detail it for the price difference you can get. If you make it look like a new car it puts the buyer in a whole new mindset. I've been trying to convince my girlfriend that she could get more for her 626 if it was detailed (it's 3 hours away from me, so I'm not able to do it easily). She doesn't believe me... something about "the economy can't take it"... oh well
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Old 08-25-03, 03:28   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlebarron
She doesn't believe me... something about "the economy can't take it"... oh well
this is a whole different ball game--girls and cars...My old lady got a 2000 Saab a little bit ago (from Framingham Saab) and I told her to refuse any sort of dealer prep and going forward to refuse it after service...she fails to listen... and I'm the idiot on a Saturday trying to fix the paint...can't live with them, can't live without them.
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Old 08-25-03, 03:36   #8 (permalink)
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yeah no kidding... she was visiting me friday and saturday, although I didn't have time to clean the car. I drove it Friday night, thick film on the mirror and on the back window, could barely see out the back with lights reflecting off the film. I asked her about it when we got home (she was driving my Jeep)... her response "They don't look dirty to me"... needless to say I cleaned them and she could tell a difference.

the alternative I know... can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em
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Old 08-25-03, 04:38   #9 (permalink)
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FWIW, around my house, it's the exact same situation in reverse when it comes to cleaning the house. "What? I couldn't tell it needed to be dusted. It looks fine to me."



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Old 08-26-03, 10:16   #10 (permalink)
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One of the challenges to selling that Civic is the fact that anyone can get a 2003 Civic LX Auto for under invoice. www.carsdirect.com says I can get one for about $14,300. Plus on a new car a buyer can easily get affordable financing from a dealer instead of messing with it on their own.

So getting $13,500 or so for a used one will be very tough. I'm gonna guess wholesale is about $12,000, maybe a little less. I don't know if there's an easy answer here but I wish you luck.
 
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Old 08-26-03, 10:43   #11 (permalink)
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It is true that brand-new cars are pretty low. I have the luxury of time, so I'm starting high and will be lowering the price a bit each week if necessary. Still, the used market for Civics seems pretty good. I could sell it for $500 over wholesale (about $11,400 I think) very quickly, and that's not bad for my effort.
 
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Old 09-02-03, 09:53   #12 (permalink)
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I know the feeling of frustration of trying to "deal with the dealer" on a trade. We were looking at trading the Jeep for a GMC Envoy. My father in law is a reitred GM employee and we could get the car through the employee purchase plan.

We knew the price right up front... the dealer said we were "stealing" the vehicle from him. When it came time to appraise the trade, they offered us $15K. I was thinking more like $18.5 K in trade. (when we were looking, the Jeep had just turned 20K miles. We bought it in November 2000)

The gamut of excuses for not giving me what their own guides (NADA, Kelly Blue Book) said was a reasonable trade was...

There are area lot of these coming off lease (not my problem)

It's not a popular color. (Driftwood Brown Satin Glow... for a non popular color, I do see a lot of them!)

We can't make a profit on what you want us to give you in trade. Tis is the excuse that really ticked me off. They had a 99 Grand Cherokee Laredo with a sticker price of $21K that was nowhere near as nice as my JGC (it even had the dealer installed swirls!)

As my wife and I walked out of the showroom, the salesman followed us, and saying that we should wait... he was "positive that he could talk the used car manager into giving us a little more in trade..." yeah, right...they had the damn Envoy sold and blew the deal on the trade!
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