What to do when going to court for a ticket?

[Dr. Jones]

I think this is probably the best place for this one... I have a ticket i have to go to court for on thusday, i've never done it before so i'm totally clueless as to what happens. It's not a major speeding ticket or anything, just a little 4 point one.

I'm assuming you meet with someone from the city/county to chat before the judge (if you even have to see one). Everyone i know talks about how they got their ticket reduced by that. Since I don't really have a record or anything i'm thinking i can get it reduced by taking a defensive driving class. Is this a typical thing or do i have to ask for it? I really actually want to kind of take the class because I think it would be a good idea, its insane how many crazy people are out there on the road today. What is the typicall procedure on what goes on. Is there anything i should look out for?

All my ticket says is when and where to be. I assume i should bring atleast that... anything else that's important that they might ask for?

[Jngrbrdman]

I think I can help you. I've gone to court on every ticket I've ever gotten and I've learned one truth of the legal system... The best way to keep a clean record is to keep a clean record. Your record doesn't show how many times you went to court to fight tickets. It just shows how many tickets went on your record.

There should be an officer of the court you can speak to and find out what the process is for your district. Sometimes they have the authority to just make a deal with you. Get a copy of your driving record at the DMV and then call the court. A driving record costs like $3 bucks or something. It will help because it saves them the trouble of looking it up. Show them you don't have any tickets and they may make a deal by lowering the fine and keeping it off your record. You are going to have to pay the ticket no matter what you do, but there are ways to keep it off your record.

The other option is to enter a plea in abayance. This is where you plead "No Contest" (DO NOT let them make you enter a plea of 'guilty'. You don't have to plead guilty on this. 'No Contest' basicly means that you aren't admitting guilt or innocence but are willing to pay the fine.) A Plea in Abayance is where you pay the fine and a processing fee and go 90 days without any citations and they will keep it off your record. Ask the clerk about that before you appear before the judge and they will have forms telling you what to do. Its a very common plea for traffic citations and the judge will almost always accept it. He doesn't care about hitting your record. The city is still getting the money from your ticket so he could care less. The Plea in Abayance is the best thing for guys with clean records. The number of times you can use it depends on how many times you have to appear before the same judge. There isn't a limit. Just don't get another ticket for 3 months and you are free and clear. Nothing on your record.

Call the court and ask if they have an officer of the court who can talk to you without having to see the judge. Salt Lake County court is the only one I've been to where that is the case. The rest of the time I've had to enter the plea with the judge. Either way you'll have to shell out some bucks, but it will stay off your record.

[Dr. Jones]

Thanks a TON for the info, very informative... it sounds like you have lots of 'expierence' in this area. I just called the court and to my suprise they were friendly and helpfull... at least the guy i talked to. When i first asked what if there is anything extra i should bring he said a few thousand dollars. If everyone is like that i think i'll be ok. They probably won't ask if i want to plead no contest (on the phone he said if I plead guilty i can probably get it reduced to 2 points), but i'll be sure and ask before i comit to anything.

Do they care anything about your situation or anything? Like is it worth bringing up the fact i'm going to the most selective college in our (and many sourounding) states, or are they pretty much like the dmv and more worried just about getting you out of there asap. I know i'm probably not going to argue the ticket, even though i think i might be able to get out of it that way. I'm sure they've heard just about all the excuses in the book too, so they probably don't want to hear it all. I guess what i'm asking is it better to explain it all and try to deal with it that way, or just Plea in Abayance and get it taken care of?

[Scottwax]

Are you guilty? If so, then try to find out if the court offers deferred abjudication or traffic school for the dismissal of tickets.

The deferred abjudiction option basically puts you on probation for a certain period (30 days to 6 months) where as long as you pay the fine of the original ticket and don't get anymore tickets during the probationary period, they dismiss the ticket. It can be an county by county deal or even city by city deal. Theoretically (at least in Texas), I can get tickets in 3 different cities and get deferred abjudication in each one, and as long as I don't get a ticket in any of those cities while on probation, all the tickets will be dismissed.

Traffic school allows you to take a 6-8 hour defensive driving class to dismiss the ticket. You usually have to pay a set fee for to take the class and most courses run in the $30 range. This option is cheaper, but usually you can only dismiss one ticket per 12 month period.

If you are innocent, you need to plead innocent and request a jury trial. Research your case, make sure you have some evidence that will prove your case and then go to court on your scheduled day. Often, if you request a jury trial over a small infraction, the DA will end up dismissing the case rather than spend tax dollars on something minor. If the cop doesn't show up, the case is also dismissed.

Make sure if you plead innocent you request copies of any evidence the state has. I got a racing ticket in Arizona, and according to the back of the ticket where the officer took some notes, his evidence was he heard two loud engine noises then saw two cars side by side at aproximately the speed limit. Nice evidence eh? In court, he admitted the other car took off after we had been side by side and I never exceeded the speed limit. The reason he pulled me over? I was the one he was able to get behind. At that point, the judge dismissed the case and lectured the cop about his lack of evidence.

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

pray the cop doesn't show up!

[Jngrbrdman]

They won't care about anything really. Don't try and make excuses. Definitely don't tell them where you go to school. People who listen to excuses all day get really irritated when someone expects an exception because of where they go to school or what they do for a living. Trust me on that one. I would be more inclined to throw the book at someone who wanted an exception because they felt the rules didn't apply to them because of what they do for a living or something like that. Just go in to face the music.

The judge will ask you how you plead. Plead 'no contest'. It is your right to do so. Don't let them tell you that you have to plead guilty to get a plea in abayance either. Its not true. Plead no contest and then ask for a plea in abayance. Its pretty simple from there. If you want to bring a copy of your DMV record then that sometimes helps. Sometimes the judge just has the clerk pull it anyway.

Enter a plea in abayance and you don't have to worry about points. It flat out won't go on your record. Enter a plea in abayance and you can get all 4 points wiped out. Its a win/win for everybody.

If you argue it then you can't go back and enter the plea in abayance later. If you think you can get out of it then fight it. Its a risky situtation. I've learned to just take what's coming to me. even if the cop was a little off when he pegged me, I speed enough and get away with it that I figure I should punish myself by facing the music when I get busted. Its your ticket though. Good luck fighting it.

[Dr. Jones]

Originally posted by Shiny Lil Detlr
pray the cop doesn't show up!

I kind of hope he does. There was a little accident involved (why my car is in the body shop right now) and he called the tow truck. I asked him if it was AAA compliant since i'm a member, he said yea. The tow truck comes and says he can't take AAA..... insurance is still fronting the bill for the towing... but i'm sure i'll see that and then some in my rate hike... Really what the cop got me for i think i can get out, but the cop sounded like he gave me a ticket just because i was at fault (which i was, but it's a kind of long story) and he just gave me a ticket for 'following too close' because it sounded like it fit. I guess that's better than reckless driving or something else. So i'm not to inclined to fight the ticket, because i did do something wrong (though unintentional). Just kind of a moral fight on weither or not i should admit to the ticket, even though i did do something wrong, but the ticket isn't cited for what it was.

I think the same way to about facing the music... i don't want to get out of it just to get out of it. With all the financial problems this has caused (pretty much the only negative side effect of it all is the major financial thing) i'd really like to take a defensive driving class if that $30 would help prevent a future problem.

I think i'm going to shoot for just paying the fine, taking a class and seeing if i can keep it all off my record. I think i can go 3 months without another ticket. Then again murphy's law is always out to get me....

What about insurance. I think if i keep it off my record it won't push my rates up anymore, but if a 2 point charge goes on will it? My rate's just keep going higher and higher. Meanwhile my insurance agent (friend of my parrents that lives in their neighborhood) just picked up his brand new made to order bmw... I already detailed his wife's lexus and got some of my insurance money back... i'll have to call him up about that bimmer now and see if i can't weasle more of it out of him...

I wonder what the judge drives... maybe i should get some buisness cards made and leave one with him... might be able to get my ticket money back too.....

[Jngrbrdman]

You are a single male under 25 and that is the worst possible thing to be. (at least I think you are a single male under 25. I seem to remember you saying something about it once) Get any points on your record and you can expect your insurance to be higher than your car payment in no time. Do whatever you need to do to keep the points off. The plea in abayance sometimes carries with it a defensive driving course. Sometimes it doesn't. It just depends on the judge.

I'm a criminal law student and used to love hanging out in traffic court when I had the time. Its amazing what you can do with the right knowledge.

[DavidB]

Excellent information, Jngr. I must admit, I have gone to court on every infraction, and my score is pretty good with the judges.

As Jngr said, never admit guilt. There are too many other opportunities. I have admitted guilt twice, but they were "guilty with mitigating circumstances." The first time I had the charges dropped and the second I had the "construction zone" status dropped because the site was not clearly marked.

The court does not want to hear excuse, they want to hear facts. If you don't have facts, keep you mouth shut. Do not invent a story. The judge has heard them all!

Jngr is right, the best case it to deal with the clerk of court and never see the judge. If you must see the judge, be on time, be polite, dress sharp and look the judge in the eye. Do not enter a plea until you know the officer who cited you is in court. If the officer is not present, you can plea no guilty because the court has no evidence. If the officer is present, and you have not attended driving school within 18 months (CA law, other states will differ), then you can plea No Contest and request driving scool to avoid having the infraction recorded on your record. If your state allows a Plea in Abayance, use it. Not all courts will permit a Plea in Abayance because it reduces state revenue, whereas driving school does not.

If you're not sure of the law, I highly recommend getting a copy of the Vehicle Code for your state. It costs a few bucks, but it's well worth the price. Having a copy of the CVC has gotten me off the hook a few times. Like, did you know it's legal to exceed the speed limit to overtake another vehicle?

db

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

"oh yeah officer, I had to do 110 in a 35 just so I could overtake this vehicle...."

[medic]

some places offer trial by mail where you bascially write a letter explaining your side and unless the officer responds within a certain amount of time it's considered as a no show by the cop and the ticket is thrown out. It's a little trick becasue most cities will pay the cop to show up in ourt, but they have to write the ticket response on regular hours so there's no real incentive to do so.

Wish I'd known that for my ticket in SF.

[Dr. Jones]

Update:

Well i just got back... first some things i learned and advice i have for anyone else who happens to come across this.

1) make sure you budget more than enough time to get there, i did, but murphy's law came into effect and there was a little traffic jam on the highway, i got there about 2 minutes late, and they didn't seem to care, but still the sooner the better.

2) find a good parking spot. If you haven't been there before, or you just hate driving downtown (if it happens to be there) like i do, make sure you go before hand and find a good parking lot. I found a little meter not to far away but it only had a 1 hour limit. It expired about 5 minutes before i was done (would of sucked getting a parking ticket while i was in court dealing with my other one...). I think my expierence would of been more pleasent if i wasn't sitting there wanting to rush through it so i could get back and pay the meter.

3) If it's your first time, or if you are unfimiliar with how it works, either call/visit before hand and ask all your questions, or take someone who has done it before, or better yet pay the extra bucks to bring a lawyer.

My expierence:
It was very formulatic. Every person i saw go through either had their ticket dismissed, or the fine/points reduced. Most common was 'operating an unsafe motor vehicle' 2pts and $40 fine, or 'driving a vehicle with malfunctioning headlights) same thing. Just about everyone had their ticket reduced to that. My 4 point 'following too closly' was reduced to that... as was another kids 'driving without insurance', 'driving without a license,' 'not wearing a seatbelt, 'driving a vehicle with unsafe child safty devices'. That string of faults, and mine, both came out to the same thing. Except the judge reduced his fine in 1/2 so he actually got off for less than me.

It was also amusing that there was a state (i think) senator. He stood up and the judge said "hello senator" and they had a little greeting thing, then the judge dismissed his case.....

It's almost as if they just wanted to move everyone though as fast as possible without having to deal with anyone any different. The ONLY word's i heard from anyone there were "good morning your honor," "yes your honer," "no your honor," "Guilty" and that's it. No one said anything about weither or not the cop who issued the ticket was there, or anything. I think they wanted it to go like this.

When i met with the guy before the judge he basically lookd at the ticket and said he would reduce it. I asked him if i could still plead "no contest" to that and he said it was fine and then that was that and i waited for the judge.

I ended up pleading guilty to that offense for 2 points and a $59 fine. When the judge asked how i pleaded I said "no contest" then he said "the court does not accept pleads of 'no contest'" I'm not sure exactly what that ment. But other than that i just felt compeled to follow the same pattern as everyone else. He ended up reducing my overall fine by $10.

I think taking a lawyer to your first time is a good idea. Everything i read about what to do and what to say seemed logical. But it's kind of intimidating being in a room with everyone else, who is just going down the assembly line in the same fashion. I had no clue about how to ask if the officer was present, or asking to take traffic school to reduce the points. I felt that if i asked about it he would take offense and i'd end up being worse off.

Over all i'm most dissapointed in the fact i had to wake up at 6:45... it wasn't too bad. I do wish i would of got those 2 points either taken care of with driving school or erased if i didn't get a ticket in the next few months, but i can't complain about only 2 points and $59. Yea I will be helping more in assisting my insurance agent with his BMW car payment now, but i'm just glad it's over. At least it will be today when (hopefully, it was suposed to be done last week) i can pick up my civic from the body shop.

I really wish i had taken a lawyer so he could of shown me how to request driving school and ask if the officer was present and all that. It might not of been profitable this time, but i think in the future (if there is one...) it would have paid off having that knowledge.