cnn's debate on auto v. maunal

medic · 12-20-02, 09:55

http://money.cnn.com/2002/12/17/pf/a...wars/index.htm

Kinda interesting, but I think the reason most get them is that they are more fun. That said, my next car will probably have the clutchless tranny - I know they're a bit lame, but just for those few times you're tired and stuck in traffic or fo whenever I have to take friends down lombard street (really curvey and hilly street in SF) it'd be nice to not have to worry about the shifts.

Redcar GUY · 12-20-02, 10:05

I tried to read that with an open mind but all I heard was Bla bla bla Auto Bla bla bla

I'll keep my 6 speed in the SS. and the auto is great for the saturn. It is up to the driver and what car it is.......

blkZ28Conv · 12-20-02, 10:11

There is only one good reason to shift gears anymore in an adequately engined car - one chooses to do so and memories of the past. Like drum brakes, in a few years only classics will feature this mode of braking and of shifting

Aurora40 · 12-20-02, 10:11

ehh... what can you expect... Car advice from CNN?

I don't think I'd say automatics are lame or inefficient, but clearly there will always be people who prefer manual trannies. There's no reason not to offer them on cars where it makes financial sense. For a while now, a manual on a Corvette has cost more than an automatic. Yet still some people buy them. Clearly it isn't just cheapskate econofreaks who see the value in self-shifting.

I don't think I'd compare manual trannies to drum brakes, though. There is no real advantage to drum brakes over discs except the initial cost of the hardware (over time the labor and difficulty of drums probably reduces the overall savings). I don't think you'd find anyone who would opt for drum brakes over discs unless they are just trying to cheap out (or don't know much about what they are anyway).

Jngrbrdman · 12-20-02, 10:20

Sometimes I'm glad for the Automatic. Anytime we know that we are going to be stuck in traffic for half the trip we always take the Accord because its an auto. I like having control over the gears on road trips but for traffic I love the auto. If you have a car with a really heavy clutch then you would really hate rush hour. The GSR has a fairly light clutch so I don't really find that its an issue. I don't mind it in traffic at all.

hondaguy2582 · 12-20-02, 10:35

thanks but no thanks cnn, i prefer not to be the lazy driver. Autos are good for long *** trips to florida and such from michigan, but id rather keep my stick bc i enjoy driving instead of worrying about whos calling me on my cell phone. And for sports car enthusiasts, i don't care if your new to it or old, you go by the stick unless you have the foot problem. I hate how automatics shift(take my gf's z28 for example), they are way too hard, and i can't stand that horrid upshift or shifting between 3rd and 4th when at a certain speed. Being able to control my own gears is a big help. Ill live by the manual until i have a big family, but if i ever buy a sports car, theres no way in heck that i will get an auto.

2wheelsx2 · 12-20-02, 12:57

So far, no one's discussed engine braking. On a spirited drive on a backroad, does no one use some compression braking on their sports car. This is a de facto necessity for a 4-stroke motorcycle because of the weight, and also why some bikes have some advantages. I find the same in a car when I am negotiating windy roads. Albeit, I have never driven one the the clutchless shifting cars. The point is not whether there is a clutch or not, but whether I can choose the gearing that I want.

tetz · 12-20-02, 01:05

I for one am hoping that a manual transmission with a clutch
pedal stays around for a long time.

I realize that the new sequential automanual doodads shift
faster, that Formula One cars are now fully automatic, that there
is no longer a fuel mileage benefit to a clutch over a torque
converter, etc. Don't care. I still like using a clutch pedal.

To those who say the automanuals are the best of both worlds,
bah humbug. I have a Tiptronic car...it's an automatic. There is
no clutch pedal.

Remember in the mid 80's when the digital dashes came out and
everyone was yapping about how the highest tech things out there, fighter planes and F1 cars, had digital dashes, etc?
The general buying public screamed for old-tech round analog
gauges and we still have them. I wish the clutch pedal was of
the same ilk.

Regarding advancing technology, I am old enough to remember
setting points, starting a carbureted car in sub-zero F temps,
steering into the skid, etc. Yup, modern fuel injection and ABS
are better and I wouldn't do without them

But I do still wanna operate a clutch pedal.
JonT
Two stick shifters for me and one Tiptronic for da wife, a veteran
of five knee surgeries.

blkZ28Conv · 12-20-02, 01:15

Quote:

Originally posted by 2wheelsx2
So far, no one's discussed engine braking. On a spirited drive on a backroad, does no one use some compression braking on their sports car. This is a de facto necessity for a 4-stroke motorcycle because of the weight, and also why some bikes have some advantages. I find the same in a car when I am negotiating windy roads. Albeit, I have never driven one the the clutchless shifting cars. The point is not whether there is a clutch or not, but whether I can choose the gearing that I want.

Go back and read the CNN article. There is a paragraph about engine verses brake usage for slowing down a vehicle. With high quality 4 wheel vented disc brakes and ABS one is able to drive deeper into the turns before slowing. The requirement of engine braking again is a left-over from the past when brake performance on cars were not up to racing's or spirited driving needs. One will still use a little in-gear engine braking to maintain a balance during high speed excitement but this is done along with some throttle adjustments and no gear change. If you require you engine's counter torque to slow down you are driving beyond the capabilities of the vehicle or are experiencing brake failure or fading.
Drive in deep, brake hard - drive off fast ( In slow- out fast)

2wheelsx2 · 12-20-02, 01:23

I did read the article actually. I am not talking about engine braking to slow the car down. I am talking about throttle control . I haven't driven an F1 car, so I don't know what the shifts are like, but in a street car, engine braking, coupled with 4 wheeled disc brakes, makes for the smoothest transition. Less work for the suspension, allowing the wheels to stick to the ground better. I am not arguing that if I had an F1 suspension that I wouldn't be able to get around a corner faster, but I am saying on things being equal, in a 4 door sports sedan, I can around a corner just as fast, and likely faster, with me controlling the gearing.

YMMV, as different people prefer different things.

On a slight tangent, if these tiptronic trannies are so good, why are all the 18 wheelers still manual?

Aurora40 · 12-20-02, 03:08

Quote:

Originally posted by 2wheelsx2
On a slight tangent, if these tiptronic trannies are so good, why are all the 18 wheelers still manual?

Surely you don't mean to imply that 18-wheelers are on the forefront of performance... Should I slap some retreads on my car when my Michelins crap out?

Not to mention that if you need to shift three times before you get up to 15 mph, an automatic that would be suitable would probably cost a fortune.

You know you get engine braking with an automatic when you lift the gas too...

2wheelsx2 · 12-20-02, 03:37

That was a joke guys. That's why the smiley was there.

As for the engine braking on automatics, maybe it's true for a 4 banger. On a V8, or a on a diesel with loads of torque, a vehicle will accelerate when not on the brakes. That's why 4wheeling guys prefer big V8's with autos. You can actually put it in drive and then push the vehicle, and then jump back in when the truck starts to move.

On my brother's turbodiesel, the truck will get up to 20 MPH without ever hitting the accelerator. He's got 20k Miles on the truck and the front brake pads are almost all gone. Engine braking? Nah....