BMW or Lexus

[detaildoc]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Accumulator got me, I do miss my Audi. Was a great car and was just thinking that maybe I should trade in my GS300 AWD for a S8, however, I was just at the Lexus dealer for an oil change this week and realized, Wow, these guys at Lexus treat me great. The ownership experience is the best out there. My car works well, looks good and I don't walk away from the dealer po'ed, which happened often with Audi.

Now, I will say, my GS300 doesn't have the HP of the 350. The 350 is either 300HP or just a hair over, mine is like 260 or so. I drove the 350 and it has some scoot. If I didn't want AWD, I would look at the hybrid, it has some pretty serious scoot in it. While the 528 may feel better, I doubt it is as quick as the GS350 in most real world situations, not counting track time. To my eye, the Lexus looks better than the Bangle'ized BMW.

Of course, ymmv.

Sam

I love the service at the Lexus dealer. You walk in there and they treat you like royalty, and the service advisors and techs are really knowledgeable. They really focus on customer service. For example, they once washed my car on accident after I had asked them not to wash it. They were very apologetic, and to make up for that little mistake, they upgraded the software of me navigation system to the newest version for free. Yes, for free, a $300 value and all in the name of customer satisfaction.

[JustinDetail]

BMW, all day, anyday over a Lexus.

[mhadden]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Noting that this thread has pretty well run its course...

Don't some current model BMWs have "electronic dipsticks"? I read somewhere that to check (really *check*) the oil level you have to take it to a dealership where they pump out the oil an measure it..there simply isn't an old-fashioned dipstick so there's no way to know if the electronic gizmo is giving an accurate reading or not.

They change the oil this way (as does MB). With the oil filter being on top, there's no reason to drain the oil through a bolt...they just plop in the extractor where the dipstick would be, pump it out, then fill conventionally. If my oil filter was on top on both of the Honda's, I would do it this way as well (and will when I buy my Bimmer)

[Wolf-Strong]

Originally Posted by mhadden

They change the oil this way (as does MB). With the oil filter being on top, there's no reason to drain the oil through a bolt...they just plop in the extractor where the dipstick would be, pump it out, then fill conventionally. If my oil filter was on top on both of the Honda's, I would do it this way as well (and will when I buy my Bimmer)

MB may do that, but BMW is a bit different. They have no dipstick, period. Instead, the computer has sensors in the pan that test the oil's dielectric properties (more metal = more wear), how hard the engine is driven, and for how long, and a few other sensors which I have forgotten about to test the quality of the oil to see when it is ready to be changed. It also senses the level of the oil in the iDrive control so you see the level there. The oil itself is still drained through a bolt at the bottom, and filled up just the same with the oil filter on the top. No extractor is used. There are benefits to both methods; extractor will pull up some gunk in the passage ways a little better while draining it through the bolt will help flush out junk that is accumulated at the bottom.

Just thought I'd clear that up since I work at BMW, which I guess would probably give you the answer on which one I voted for. To me, luxury only means so much because the experience of the drive on how it sounds, accelerates, and handles is what it is all about which is why I drive a BMW. I actually LOVE the iDrive system and find it very easy to use on everything but the 7 series, which I will agree, is a PITA to use. They did improve it in 05' on the 7 series, but it is still a pain. Great system otherwise and really helps clean up the interior on its looks. I also love the layout and feel of BMW interiors as it feels purpose built towards the driving experience. Without a doubt, my favorite brand of cars and only a very few select others would I consider to be on equal grounds as far as a car you would drive every day (Porsche and Audi being the other big 2).

Lexus on the other hand, I have been disapointed with. Don't get me wrong, they are 'nice', but whenever I get in one I always feel as though I am not the one driving, rather being taken for a drive; it is a very disconected feeling. To me, it just isn't well designed and tries to make the cockpit open to everyone instead of focusing on the driver and the driving experience. I know I will get hammered for this as well, but to me, the whole car just feels cheap and while they do make a good engine, I also have seen them have just as many problems as BMWs.

I seriously prefer the quality and feel of my 15 year old BMW 5 series over a brand new Lexus.

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by detaildoc

I love the service at the Lexus dealer. You walk in there and they treat you like royalty...

I bought my '04 Denali XL from a Lexus dealer in Charlotte NC (Hendrick Lexus). The place was very impressive, almost like a day-spa. To be honest, I found it a little overdone...but then I'm pretty old-fashioned about such stuff and I bet most people would love it. Heh heh, they seemed downright disappointed that I only wanted a bottle of plain water and didn't want anything to eat. I gotta say that if how they treated me (an out-of-town used non-Lexus truck buyer that they'll never see again) is any indication of their overall operation (and other Lexus dealers), then they're really doing things well.

Originally Posted by mhadden

..With the oil filter being on top, there's no reason to drain the oil through a bolt...they just plop in the extractor where the dipstick would be, pump it out, then fill conventionally. If my oil filter was on top on both of the Honda's, I would do it this way as well..

I don't have any problem with that method of doing oil changes, I'd just want some way of doing an actual check of the oil level rather than trusting the electronic dipstick. I'm an analog guy in an increasingly digital world

[Blake]

Been there! The Lexus dealer continues to amaze me with the attitude that the customer is King. I was initially concerned that I would be raped on service charges and that was the furthest thing from the truth. At the time I also had a Honda van and paid more for an oil change on the Odyssey than on the RX. I really have a lot of praise for the dealer and after having bought a ton of cars through my lifetime (I'm a geezer) this is the first time I have praise for the dealer. I hate to say it but it's no wonder some companies are struggling.

[mhadden]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I don't have any problem with that method of doing oil changes, I'd just want some way of doing an actual check of the oil level rather than trusting the electronic dipstick. I'm an analog guy in an increasingly digital world

I definately agree! I love technology, but there are things that I still wish would continue to stay the "old school" way!

And thanks Wolf-Strong for clarifying. I new BMW has a sophisticated system, but I didn't realize that it included a sensor like that. I thought it used fuel usage, engine rpm and total engine run time and put it through some algorithym to put out when the oil should be changed. I can't wait to get my Bimmer!

[Piloti]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I can't really cast a vote for somebody else's decision as, IMO, it depends on the driver. My wife and I would vote BMW, but that's just *us* and most of our friends would be happier with the Lexus. NO question the Lexus would be a more trouble-free ownership experience, but I think he'd just have to drive them all and then make his decision.

If he doesn't appreciate the higher abilities of the BMW, then the Lexus would be a no-brainer choice. If he finds the Lexus' limits during his test drive (heh heh, imagine face of Lexus salesman ) then he'll want the Bimmer and there won't be any question in his mind about the choice.

*MOST* people really just want a good appliance that gets them around, so I'd bet on his taking the Lexus.

Accumulator, you are spot on.

I own the BMW E60, and I really enjoy it, but you have to drive both cars to really make a decision. When I was purchasing this car I was also looking at the Infiniti M45, another great car, on paper, in looks, and performance. But once I drove the BMW, I was convinced by the handling.

So I'm also unable to answer the poll.

[Piloti]

Originally Posted by detaildoc

Someone I know who worked for BMW (high up in their marketing department) explained to me that the "free" 4 year/50k service really isn't free. BMW tags the estimated cost of this service to the price of the car, so you really just end up paying for the service upfront . Kind of sneaky, isn't it? It is no different than buying the service package from Lexus when you purchase the car, except that in this case the buyer has a choice.

Detaildoc,

Here's something else to consider, I bought my BMW (my 1st) used, and CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) which extended the original warranted to 100K. I noticed some clutch slippage recently at 98K miles. The replacement is being covered under the warrantee.

Maybe it was included in the price, so I paid in 04' dollars for 08' service. I still think that works for me.

[detaildoc]

Originally Posted by Piloti

Detaildoc,

Here's something else to consider, I bought my BMW (my 1st) used, and CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) which extended the original warranted to 100K. I noticed some clutch slippage recently at 98K miles. The replacement is being covered under the warrantee.

Maybe it was included in the price, so I paid in 04' dollars for 08' service. I still think that works for me.

Lexus and any other luxury vehicle company will also cover any defects or break downs while in warranty with no problems whatsoever. However, the issue here is with the supposedly "free" maintenance service. It is very misleading to tell buyers and to advertise it as "free" when in reality it is included in the price of the vehicle, so you are in fact paying for it.

Now, since my friend already made up his mind and is getting the GS, I'd like to close this thread by once again stating this fact: BOTH LINES SIMPLY APPEAL TO DIFFERENT DRIVERS, PERFORMANCE ORIENTED AND LUXURY/COMFORT ORIENTED.

[Frankie_B]

That was said on page one I believe!

Nothing is ever perfect, and having a choice is a beauty!