Don't steer away from exploring paths less traveled

[Coupe]

Originally Posted by ZoranC

Humans tend to subsconsciously travel paths they are comfortable with, which is often paths that others have went through easily with success before.

Many tend to follow "6.5" pad for general PC polishing, 4" pad for spot repair" well beaten path. I know how 6.5" pad on PC feels. My body is familiar with vibrations, sound, can see when it is bogging down.

Few months ago I came across 5.5" thin pads and product description was telling me they would be easier to work with. I am of a curious kind so eventually they ended up purchased down the road.

Yesterday was first time I used them and I am happy to say my curiosity paid off. There was less vibrations. PC was not bogging down. I was able to maneuver more precisely. I was very happy with results of my "experiment". So much that such pads will be my default choice wherever appropriate from now on.

Don't be afraid to explore paths less traveled. They are the only way to result in new rewards.

Thank you thank thank you!
I have been trying to tell people that anything bigger than 6" pads is a pain. I wont ever use pads bigger than 6" ever again.

[budman3]

Originally Posted by ZoranC

What is your reason behind it?

There are a few.
1- I got fed up with the velcro backing failing on a perfectly good 6.5" pad
2- The larger area = faster work (especially for final polish, paint cleaner, LSP)
3- LC 7.5" pads surround the backing plate which takes out the risk of the backing plate hitting the paint.
4- LC 7.5" pads are extremely durable. You won't find the backing separating from the pad
5- The variable contact pad reduces sling when used with a rotary
6- I can use the same pads for the PC and rotary
7- The PC is still very effective with larger pads.

[Coupe]

Originally Posted by budman3

There are a few.
1- I got fed up with the velcro backing failing on a perfectly good 6.5" pad
2- The larger area = faster work (especially for final polish, paint cleaner, LSP)
3- LC 7.5" pads surround the backing plate which takes out the risk of the backing plate hitting the paint.
4- LC 7.5" pads are extremely durable. You won't find the backing separating from the pad
5- The variable contact pad reduces sling when used with a rotary
6- I can use the same pads for the PC and rotary
7- The PC is still very effective with larger pads.

Try a pad that is 5"-6", just try it.
I cannot believe that a 7.5" pad does not bog the machine down. I used sonus DAS pads (7") when i first started out and they would bog the machine down with the slightest pressure. I cant imagine a 7.5" pad.

[xtahoex]

One thing to consider is that with a larger pad the outside edge is spinning at a faster speed so maybe that helps to break down the polishes better and work better. This would only be true obviously if the user was not applying pressure (slowing the machine) to the machine and using a technique more like one would use with a rotary. Just a thought.

[Coupe]

Originally Posted by xtahoex

One thing to consider is that with a larger pad the outside edge is spinning at a faster speed so maybe that helps to break down the polishes better and work better. This would only be true obviously if the user was not applying pressure (slowing the machine) to the machine and using a technique more like one would use with a rotary. Just a thought.

Wish that was true but the PC dosent have enough muscle to spin a pad that size.

[ZoranC]

Originally Posted by budman3

There are a few.
1- I got fed up with the velcro backing failing on a perfectly good 6.5" pad
2- The larger area = faster work (especially for final polish, paint cleaner, LSP)
3- LC 7.5" pads surround the backing plate which takes out the risk of the backing plate hitting the paint.
4- LC 7.5" pads are extremely durable. You won't find the backing separating from the pad
5- The variable contact pad reduces sling when used with a rotary
6- I can use the same pads for the PC and rotary
7- The PC is still very effective with larger pads.

Re # 1 : Would that be a failure of backing that has nothing to do with size of pad? Or it is failure directly attributable to size of pad?

Re # 2 : Smaller pad covers smaller area in one pass, but with smaller pad working more aggressively you need less passes, so wouldn't that more or less even out?

Re # 3 : Many highly experienced and reputable detailers, both here and on MO, prefer pad getting pressure on the edges. That is if we are talking PC. I have a feeling you meant with rotary. We were not talking rotary here.

Re # 4 : Does that mean that smaller than 7.5" pads from any manufacturer are not durable just because of smaller size?

Re # 5 : We are not talking rotary here.

Re # 6 : I too liked the idea of using same pads for both rotary and PC. However, if something will work better for me then something works better for me and I will not mind getting different pads.

Re # 7 : Why not go with 8.5" pads on it then?

[ZoranC]

Originally Posted by xtahoex

One thing to consider is that with a larger pad the outside edge is spinning at a faster speed so maybe that helps to break down the polishes better and work better.

However, if that was correct 4" pads wouldn't end up being more aggressive than 6.5" pads.

[budman3]

Originally Posted by ZoranC

Re # 1 : Would that be a failure of backing that has nothing to do with size of pad? Or it is failure directly attributable to size of pad?

Re # 2 : Smaller pad covers smaller area in one pass, but with smaller pad working more aggressively you need less passes, so wouldn't that more or less even out?

Re # 3 : Many highly experienced and reputable detailers, both here and on MO, prefer pad getting pressure on the edges. That is if we are talking PC. I have a feeling you meant with rotary. We were not talking rotary here.

Re # 4 : Does that mean that smaller than 7.5" pads from any manufacturer are not durable just because of smaller size?

Re # 5 : We are not talking rotary here.

Re # 6 : I too liked the idea of using same pads for both rotary and PC. However, if something will work better for me then something works better for me and I will not mind getting different pads.

Re # 7 : Why not go with 8.5" pads on it then?

#1,3,4- The failure has to do with the velcro backing only being glued onto the pad itself. The edges of the velcro are constantly being abused (most of the time from removing the pad) and the glue wears down and the velcro backing lets go of the pad. It doesn't matter the size of the pad, its how it is made. The 7.5" LC variable contact pads have the velcro backing somewhat molded into the pad itself making it virtually impossible for it to separate. This is a big reason why I like them. I have a handful of 6 inch pads that have had the velcro issue and that is how I started using the 7.5" ones. Here is a picture of what I mean:

There is no way for the velcro to come off. This is what I mean in #3. The backing plate is surrounded by the pad. I'm not talking about pressure- on other pads if you drop the machine or tilt it at a bad angle, the edge of the backing plate could come in contact with the paint causing damage. That also won't happen with the LC 7.5".

#2- Yes the finishing on polishes would be quicker but it is still fairly fast with the bigger pads. Plus, as I said, you really gain when you use a light polish or glaze or paint cleaner or LSP... which is the majority of what I do for personal vehicles.

#5&6- Just an added bonus to the pads... I only use my rotary on very neglected vehicles and since I don't do this full time I don't use it a lot. So I am able to save money by using the same pads and they both work very well.

These pads are working very well for myself and many other detailers. I'm not sure why you aren't happy with my responses but I am just letting the rest of the people on the board know of the other options "off the beaten path". I have used various pads and the 7.5" pads are excellent- I see no reason to use any other size or type pads.

That is unless someone comes up with a smaller pad that looks like these pads, that wrap around the BP and the velcro backing is molded into the pad- then yes I would use a smaller pad. I agree that the smaller pads are more effective but it's rediculious to say that the 7.5" aren't effective (I didn't say that someone said this-- but it seems like it). Heck, it's only 1/2" on each side bigger than a 6.5" pad....

Originally Posted by Coupe

Try a pad that is 5"-6", just try it.
I cannot believe that a 7.5" pad does not bog the machine down. I used sonus DAS pads (7") when i first started out and they would bog the machine down with the slightest pressure. I cant imagine a 7.5" pad.

I have used these pads. I don't see any differences in the bogging or reduced cutting times. There's a reason why you can't believe it doesn't bog the maching down- that's because you haven't tried it. You can either take my word for it or go out and buy the pads to try and prove me wrong... I'm just sharing my personal experiences with pads and what I like. I do think that it is personal preference though. I like them, they are very effective, they last a long time, I can use them with 2 machines and they are safe. Sounds good to me.

[ZoranC]

Originally Posted by budman3

#1,3,4- The failure has to do with the velcro backing only being glued onto the pad itself. ... I'm not sure why you aren't happy with my responses but I am just letting the rest of the people on the board know of the other options "off the beaten path". ... I have used various pads and the 7.5" pads are excellent- I see no reason to use any other size or type pads. ... That is unless someone comes up with a smaller pad that looks like these pads, ...

Me not being happy with your responses is incorrect percpetion. I am actually happy to see different approaches and points of view and debate them, as much of your approach of going bigger as mine of going smaller, because thinking differently than beaten path is major point of this thread, like you too pointed out.

What I was trying to point out though is that I was talking about pad size while you were concentrating majority of pros for 7.5" on features of certain implementation that have nothing to do, like you too yourself said, with size. I agree that they are good features, but again would like to see that noticed and separated so it doesn't become apples and oranges. I feel it says a lot when you say you would go for 5" if you could find them with same features.

Originally Posted by budman3

I have used these pads. I don't see any differences in the bogging or reduced cutting times. There's a reason why you can't believe it doesn't bog the maching down- that's because you haven't tried it. You can either take my word for it or go out and buy the pads to try and prove me wrong...

You are right that I haven't tried 7.5" pads to see will they bog down. I feel spending money to see whether that will happen or not would be a waste because if 6.5" ones bog down on me, like they sometimes do, 7.5" ones will, assuming they are made from exactly same material in exactly same straight edge shape and I apply exactly same pressure on them, bog down even easier, or to be precise 33.14% easier because that's how much surface area of 7.5" is bigger than surface area of 6.5" and resistance to movement (friction) is proportional to surface size. It might be just 0.5" bigger on both sides but 33% bigger is 33% more resistance. Of course, that is assuming they have staright edge. And if they don't have straight edge so their contact area is smaller than what ot should be based on size then what's the point?

[Coupe]

I look at it this way based on what i know about the machine and the polishes.

Polishes need heat and pressure to break down.

The PC was designed for small, light weight sanding disks.

Well from my experiance 7" pads that are soaked with polish are heavy and the PC just dosent have the power to keep the pad moving, the slightest pressure stops them from moving at all. So i thought well, if i can get a smaller pad (mimicking the use of a sanding disk) the PC should be able to keep it moving and i should be able to create the pressure and heat necessary to properly break down the polish and do it in a timely manner. Well i was right, it worked the way i thought it would.

Going off my experiance with 7" pads i cant imagine the 7.5" pads being any different. With my 7" pads if i looked at them wrong they stopped moving.

[ZoranC]

Originally Posted by Coupe

I look at it this way based on what i know about the machine and the polishes. ... So i thought well, if i can get a smaller pad (mimicking the use of a sanding disk) the PC should be able to keep it moving and i should be able to create the pressure and heat necessary to properly break down the polish and do it in a timely manner. Well i was right, it worked the way i thought it would.

I used different line of reasoning for same result. Mine was "If 6.5" pads work but are sometimes too big for some areas of my car so they get in my way, and 4" would work in those areas but might be too aggressive and too small to do whole car with, then 5" to 5.5" ones have a chance of being happy medium". It worked way better than I thought/hoped. So much I was shocked how easy it was to work with them and how much less effort I needed. I definitely have to try 5.25" CSS from Danase.

[xtahoex]

First of all let me say that I do not like large pads I was just trying to put a reason behind why they may work for some people. That being said the reason behind a 4" pad being aggressive is different than my reasoning (although it may be incorrect) for a 7.5" pad being aggressive. A 4" pad is aggressive not just because of speed but because any pressure applied is spread over a much smaller "footprint" this also means that more pressure can be applied while not slowing the machine down as much. Thus the reasons for a 4" pad being more aggressive are both pressure and speed, whereas my reasoning for a 7.5" pad being aggressive was only speed. So to answer your response ZoranC yes the outside edge of larger pad may actually spin faster than a smaller pad but the smaller pad could still be more aggressive because of its combination of speed and pressure.