A Noob that Needs Desperate Help

[Nick_418]

Hi everyone, im new here and need some advice. Ive been searching through the forums for couple months and hear many positive things about the Menzerna Products. I have a red 1986 Corvette (C4) and a black 1991 3rd gen Z/28 camaro with some swirls all over the paint (from washing/dusting ect) I was lookin at proper car care site with the Menzerna Swirl Remover Kit. It comes with the Menzerna IP and u use it with a 7.5 CCS orange pad and the Menzerna FPII and you use it with the CCS white pad 7.5. Are these products as good as people say? Anyone tried these new CCS pads? My main objective is to get rid of the swirl marks and have a nice glossy finish afterwards (like most of us lol). How big of a section should i do (18 inches x 18inches)? Do you think i can use one pad for a whole car? Or do i have to use more then one pad? After using the pads can i clean them and reuse them agian, or do i have to throw them away? What kind of temperature should i do it in? I think im going to try these steps.

1) Menzerna IP with 7.5 CCS orange pad
2) Menzerna FPII with CCS white pad
3) Menzerna Touching Glaze with grey pad (i think?)
4) Menzerna FMJ with either red pad or by hand..

Im little nervous about the orange pad and the IP, maybe it will cut to much. Like i said im new to this. So im going to practice these products on my fathers 1988 Mercedes Benz before i try it on my cars. I dont think i need a yellow pad because thats to aggresive and the blemishes on my car arent that harsh. I think the orange pad with IP will be a great combo. The kit im getting is this Menzerna Advanced Swirl Removal Kit<br>with CCS Technology Pads.

Please be little easy on me, also you guys recommend any good microfiber towels? Sorry for asking lots of questions, i just dont want to screw up and pay alot of money for nothing.. Any suggestion/ideas will be great, thanks guys

[Nick_418]

Im also using the PC 7424 with this

[Lone_Star]

Nick,
Welcome! I unfortunately am just as new as you, but I have also heard good things about Menzerna Products. If you do a search, I think there is a write up on the different MF towels. Check under reviews about them. I know somebody with experience can help ya, welcome again!

[DSVWGLI]

Welcome to Autopia. Have you tried doing a search on the topics you want?

[Coupe]

I would stay away from pads any bigger than 6.5" if your using a PC

[Accumulator]

Nick 418- Welcome to Autopia!

DSVWGLI's not blowing you off with the search suggestion; MF towels and how to use the PC have been covered in depth numerous times (and far better than I could explain it here). But yeah, you can reuse the pads.

The paint on your GMs is pretty hard (at least it is on the '91, never worked on a 4th-gen 'vette). The paint on the '88 Benz will almost certainly be softer (mine was). *IMO* the 7.5" pads will cause the PC to bog down when you apply the required pressure and will thus be less than effective. I'd use smaller pads, at least 6.5" ones and probably 4" ones for any severe marring. But note that experiences differ and some people do like the larger pads.

IMO there's a far greater chance that whatever approach you employ will be too *mild* than there is that it'll be too aggressive. The PC is pretty mild.

Do a lot of research on this stuff before you buy (let alone before you start working on the cars). It's not rocket science but you need to be knowledgeable before you begin.

[Dave KG]

Welcome to Autopia...

I am guessinf that the Menzerna products you have looked at are the ones which are sold in the white rectangualr bottles. If so, these are very good products but IMVHO there are better versions of the Menzerna polishes available. These go by the desingations:

PO85RD3.0x Intensive Polish
PO106FF Final Finish

These polishes were developped for cars with cerami-clear paint finishes but are safe to use on normal paints, and these polishes are better lubed and easier to use as a result. The standard version of the Intensive Polish is prone to dusting on its own, and I find that its best used with regular spritzes of quick detailer or water to keep the dust down and keep the work time of the polish up to thoroughly break it down. The cerami-clear versions however I find do not dust and require no additional lube.

Whichever Menzerna polishes you choose to go for however, they are both excellent products - I just prefer the ones mentioned above for the aforementioned reasons.

When working by PC, 18" by 18" is the largest area I would tackle, as you want to focus on a small area to ensure you can thoroughly break the polish down. The general method I use for Menzerna polishes (adapt to find a style that suits you best, experimentation is the key to get started) is spread on speed 2/3, work for a couple of passes at speed 5 on then seven to ten passes on speed 6 until the residue goes clear to thoroughly break down the polish - ensure you thoroughly work the polish as this is the best way to get good defect removal and a quality finish.

Also, always start with the least abrasive combo first on a test spot to see what polish you require for defect removal - so try out Final Finish / Final Polish 2 on a test spot and evaluate the results - if it delivers the results there's no need to use Intensive Polishand continue to use FPII on the whole car. If not, step up to Intensive Polish and then follow this with FPII to refine the finish.

A note if you choose to use the PO91L version of Intensive Polish - that is the one in the white rectanugular bottle distributed by Classic Motoring Accessories. Thes barsives in this product are very brittle, and heavy initial pressure shatters them before the have a chance to effectively cut - for this reason, I find a slow cutting method described below to be the most effective way of working this product - the same is true for S34A Power Gloss:

In this guide, I outline the slow-cut technique that I used on a recent detail to remove severe swirls from an Audi using the Porter Cable 7424. My technique is all based on the information L200 Steve has presented both on this forum and discussion I've had with him at the Wishaw detailing day a wee while back, possibly varying slightly from Steve's technique as we all have our own individual methods we're happy with but the idea is the same.

I present my methods which are also based on the use of the Menzerna polishes - Intensive Polish and Power Gloss Compound, which use milled aluminium as the abbrassive. This is fragile, and breaks down under applied pressure. So, by applying no pressure to the PC head you allow the abbrassives to break down naturally during the cutting process rather than shattering them with weight so yo get better cutting performance from the polish.

For this technique you will need:

> PC7424 DA Polisher (or equiv)
> 4/6" Cutting Pads
> Water or QD spray
> Plenty of patience!

Method

1.
Apply a spray of water to the pad to wet it, and then apply some polish (PGC or IP depending on swirl severity) to the pad.

2.
Work on a very small area at a time - I would go for roughly 1' square, nothing more. Dab the machine around this area to apply the polish.

3.
Turn the PC on at speed 3. Support the weight of the machine - I tend to hold it with the handly on for this method, one hand underneth the back of the PC to hold it up and the other on the handle to guide direction without applying weight to the machine. Any hold is good though, so long as there is no weight over the head of the PC - try to support the machine's weight. Move the PC slowly across the area in overlapping strokes, at a speed of around 1/2" per second - very slowly. You should get around five, six passes before the polish starts to go clear and look like its drying and ready to buff off...

4.
Rather than buff off the residue, I spray the pad with some more water and repeat the above step. Speed 3, no weight, very slow passes. The polish hazes up again and you have more work time... Make more slow passes until the polish begins to go clear again.

5.
After two hits at speed 3, I then spray the pad with water and move onto speed 5, again no weight and no pressure and make slow passes by moving the PC at about 1/2" per second.

6.
Finally, spray the pad with water again, and move to speed 6 and this time apply pressure to the PC for a final single pass over the area at about 1" per second. The polish will likely be pretty clear after this stage, so buff off the residue. If you examine the pad, I found that it actually looked quite clean after this, very little white polish left there.

7.
If you've used PGC, you will induce micromarring with this method, but this can be easily removed using IP and either the fast or slow-cut technqiues.


* I am generally quite generous with the amount of product applied here, using a little more than I woud normally for the fast-cut method but being sure to work the polish in with the above method.

** This is my own personal mehtod for this technique which I find suits me well, it differs in a few ways from Steve's method I belive but the ideas are all the same. You may well feel more comfortable making more passes at speed 3, and the final pass at speed 5 for example - a little bit or trial of the method and you will find something that suits you perfectly. I have presented my method as a general guide of the method rather than hard and fast technique.

(Written by me, summer 2006)

Re: your other questions. Yes you can use the same pad for the whole car but don't mix products on the pad. Once pad for each product. Ensure you regularly brush the pads (after every panel) with a stiff bristle brush to remove any clotting that may have formed on the pad, this keeps the performance of the pad up. Also, once used, you can wash the pads (I find normal dish soap is fine, Fairy Liquid here in the UK, I believe Dawn is similar in America), rinse thoroughly and the pads can be used again.

[Dave1]

Excellent write up Dave KG........

[Nick_418]

Thanks for welcoming me guys! Dave KG awesome post mate, ive been reading lot of your post and you seem you know your stuff. For the Menzerna Power Gloss would i have to use that same method? Will it cause dusting like the IP? Ive read it removes paint defects for 1000-1500 grit. Which still isnt to bad i guess. Im thinking of adding that on my list as well. Maybe the IP will be to light for my cars. I still need to do some searching. Also im thinking about switching the FPII for the PO106ff. I can find 106ff easy but i cant find those other products you mention (maybe discontinue here in the U.S?) I wouldnt need to use that method for the 106ff tho? Is the 106ff have more of a cut then the FPII? Does it have a more glossy finish? Thanks guys for all the help so far!

[Nick_418]

Nevermind about the Power Gloss. After looking it over. It might be too aggresive for my paint. Im going to stick with IP now. If it doesnt cut good enough with the orange pad, you guys think i might try a yellow pad with the IP then if it doesnt do a good job with the orange pad? Has anyone tried these new CCS Pads. Im going to get the 6.5 CCS pads with some reg 4.0 pads from Lake Country as well.

[Dave KG]

If you did choose to go with the Power Gloss, then tha slow-cut method above would be the method I was use to apply it to get the best from it.

The 106FF doesn't require the slow-cutting method: I just spread at speed 2, a couple of passes at speed 5 and then seven or eight passes or speed 6 until the residue goes clear.

I beleive the other polishes I mentioned (Intensive Polish PO85RD3.01) is available in America, but I recently found out that due to VOC regs, the Final Finish PO85RD is not available in America, or atleast not that I am aware of, please correct me if I'm wrong folks. I find the 106FF has a little more bite than the FPII yet is easier to finish down with but in all honesty, there really isn't all that much to choose between these two products on the PC.

Stepping up from orange to yellow pad if you dont get the desired defect correction on orange is a good plan, the yellow pad will give you a little more bite and will see slightly improved performance.

[Nick_418]

seems like i can't find any of that PO85RD3.01 for the U.S. Maybe i should call the places that stock them at england. Or i should give the regular IP a try with the slow cut method.