Valugard ABC surface prep - will it strip sealants as well as wax?

The Lizard · 03-15-02, 09:31

I am planning on doing a major detailing project and may use (thanks to all the positive posts) the Valugard ABC system to prep the finish. Am I correct in assuming that you just go through these steps and it will take even a sealant off your car, eliminate the need for claying and leave that finish ready to accept any new polish, wax or sealant? No rubbing, etc?

I just tried the Valugard OEM one step and it goes on and comes off easily for all of you guys that have trouble with Klasse, etc. I am impressed with this product, nice shine, easy to use, feels good....what's not to like?

Jngrbrdman · 03-15-02, 09:47

The ABC system should take care of most of what you are concerned about. It is pretty good stuff. If you have access to it then it is a lot safer than the old Dawn or vinegar route that a lot of people use. You are still going to want to clay though. The ABC system will help out quite a bit but it isn't really a substitute for a good clay job. The ABC will help with the IFO (industrial fallout) but the clay will still help in removing other contaminants. That is just my experience with it. I only did it on my rear bumper where the IFO was really visible and the finish was much smoother after I clayed it after the ABC treatment. That was just my experience though. I'm sure you could email autoint about it and they could tell you for sure if the clay is really neccessary.

DETAILKING · 03-15-02, 11:47

ABC is no subsititute for a good clay job. In my opinion, it is a short cut method more suited to large volume detailers and dealers. Another thing to consider is that vitually all the OEM' use CLAY now and have approved it as the safest method for removing rail dust. These are just a few examples.......

http://208.245.156.149/chrysler.htm
http://208.245.156.149/ford.htm
http://208.245.156.149/gm.htm
http://208.245.156.149/hyundai.htm
http://208.245.156.149/isuzu.htm
http://208.245.156.149/toyota.htm

Remember, only clay will pull embedded contaminants out of the paint. An product such as ABC will mainly just get the surface contaminants, just like JNRBRDMAN reported.

Also, the Acid part of the ABC was designed to dissolve iron and rail dust. I don't know about you but I would skip a treatment like that on my paint. And some people still insist that dawn is harsh........hmmmmmmmmmm

puterbum · 03-16-02, 12:19

There is another thread that has turned onto this topic

Sure, it goes on easy but just like DK said above . . . Do you really want to be using something designed to eat away METAL on your car's finish? I mean how many $5-10 bath towels do you have? Do you buy $5+ microfiber to pamper your finish?

Then why the heck are you using acid on it?!?!

Intermezzo · 03-16-02, 12:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Jngrbrdman
It is pretty good stuff. If you have access to it then it is a lot safer than the old Dawn

Jngrbrdman, are you referring to Dawn's alkalinity?

Jngrbrdman · 03-16-02, 09:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Intermezzo

Jngrbrdman, are you referring to Dawn's alkalinity?

Personally I haven't ever seen damage to my car using Dawn. But just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't happening, right?

I definatly don't want to start another Dawn debate but I will say that if I didn't have access to anything else to get the Dawn wash results, then I would whip out a bottle of it. I wouldn't use it very often though. I believe what a lot of people have said about the damage that extensive use of Dawn can cause. Its like smoking. One cigarette probably won't cause lung cancer, but too many of them might.

The Lizard · 03-16-02, 10:05

Searched "valugard ABC system" and came up with a few threads that seemed to favor it over clay by a long shot. Check out posts here from Jasonc8301. wolfsburg, and Brad4rdHaye (did I get that one right?)- these are all guys who seem to know their stuff and have tried this. Supposed to be able to get below the surface and get at contaminants where the clay just cuts off the top.

What's more, it can be done as much as you want without worry of hurting paint in any way. I have been told by Ron K, and others that know what they are doing, that Dawn can break down paint. I ain't gonna go there...

Detailking, you seem to be against this system for some reason. IMO, the system is far from a shortcut as many have used it in conjunction with clay during the B part of the system. What's more, you could just do the A part to get off any sealant, wax, etc. and skip the B if you want and go right to the C wash to restore PH.

Seems to me that rather than a shortcut, this is a prudent "wanna make sure it is done right" move. I am very tempted to give it a shot...

This forum is great.....The Lizard is not worthy....

Jngrbrdman · 03-16-02, 10:12

If you have access to the stuff then use it. Personal opinions and results may vary.

It is definatly good at what it was designed to do but, like dawn, I wouldn't use it very often. From what I can see from my use with the Valuguard line they make very good stuff. I still prefer Klasse to their OEM one step stuff and there are a few other things that I've had better luck with off the shelf products, but overall I would say they are good at what they do.

BW · 03-16-02, 10:45

The Lizard, check your PMs.

Intermezzo · 03-16-02, 03:59

Opinions definitely vary, that much is obvious. For me personally, I just wouldn't want to use an acid on my car that is strong enough to dissolve embedded rust particles on my car, even if it was just after using a strong alkaline solution.

It's just psychological for me. Who's to say that ABC is unquestionably bad or Dawn is unquestionably bad for your paint plasticizers? Yeah sure, Ron Ketcham says it does, but like Jngrbrdman said in an earlier post, "Just because he has an opinion about a product doesn't mean there aren't other views and other facts." and I agree with brdman. I just feel more comfortable using Dawn. Heck, I use dawn almost nightly to do the dishes. Would you be willing to soak your hands in ABC every night?

Lizard, DK is not against ABC for just "some reason". Jason, Wolfsburg & Brad4rdHay DO know their stuff, I agree, but so does DK. It's just a matter of differing opinions. Besides, if the alkaline properties of Dawn were so bad for your car, why is there no fuss over the even stronger alkaline properties of Blackfire (Polish, Protectant & wash)?

The Lizard · 03-16-02, 07:48

I don't know the facts, the chemistry of ABC, Dawn or whatever. That is why I come to this forum. Hopefully to find out. All I know is that Ron K. works for a company that develops product for and in conjunction with major car companies. The man lives and breathes autopaint everyday. If his company has a product that is meant to neutralize contaminants and make the paint surface happy, I have a tendency to believe him. He has to have scientific fact to back up what he says or his company would not survive.

It is one thing to have opinions, that is fine. But this is something that addresses the foundation of all other things, polish, wax, etc. Surface prep, and proper surface prep, should be something that we all try to achieve. It should be based on science, not opinion. If anyone can tell me in scientific terms why Dawn is better or not, I would love to hear it.

Ron K. has presented facts about this system based on years of experience with paint chemistry, can anyone with a different opinion offer the same expertise?

I respect all the opinions posted here. I just feel that there should be some concrete answer to this question as it affects paint in a long term manner. Because of this, problems would not occur until major damage had already been done, and I do not want to deal with that scenario.

Jngrbrdman · 03-16-02, 08:19

Consider this, Lizard. Do you think that the chemists that make Armor All have opinions about their products? Do you think the people that make Turtle Wax have opinions? Everybody has their opinion based on their own beliefs about what is right and wrong. Just because the guy that makes Armor All says it is a great product doesn't mean that there aren't other schools of thought on what that product really does. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. It doesn't have to be personal for someone to disagree with an expert on what they think is right and wrong.

Ron K is not a religion. Hes just a guy that happens to have a lot of knowledge and experience. That doesn't make him God or anything. His views and opinions are subject to debate just like all our opinions are. Nobody disagrees with him because it is personal. They just have different beliefs about what works.

I heard something when I was a kid and it has stuck with me ever since. I think it is very true in this case. "You can verify any opinion if you consult enough experts." Basicly you can have it proven that ABC is good and you can have it proven that ABC is bad. It just depends on who you ask.

edit: By the way, the question has already been answered for you. ABC will strip everything off your car. Even the sealant.