Newbie needs help understanding polishing...

[fitzski]

First, sorry for questions that may be intuitive to most, but I'm really just starting out here.

To the problem at hand...

I've never polished a car before, and having picked up a 2003 Passat W8 over the winter, this car needs some help. There are a lot of swirl marks and superficial scratches - I doubt the PO ever even waxed it. It's Pacific Blue, a dark colour.

I've got a PC 7424, along with some Lake Country pads (orange, white, black) and I picked up some Optimum Compound. I've washed and clayed the car, and now I need to know how to use the polishing products. I tried a spot on the roof, but it sure doesn't seem like I'm getting the results I would expect.

I applied the OC to the LC orange pad (in a "+" on the pad face), dabbed it around the roof a bit, then turned it on at speed setting 3, did a few passes, then turned it up to 5 and did a few more passes. I didn't apply any additional pressure to the PC, just it's own weight. I then buffed the area with a buffing towel, to see the results. The compound was still a bit damp. I could still see scratches and swirl marks on the roof, but what has me worried is the definite "haze" to the area... did I take off too much?!

So, some questions:
- what sort of speed settings should I use on the PC?
- how much compound gets used... better too little, or too much? If it doesn't dry in a few passes, am I using too much?
- what kind of buffing technique is best? I just used a MF buffing towel.
- what is the next step after buffing off the compound... should I move to a softer pad and do it again? Or go to a straight polish? Or...? I'm a bit nervous about the hazing, but given that the same scratches (probably from driving under low hanging branches or something) are still clearly visible, I don't *think* I've taken off too much.

Anyway... that's where I'm at. Your help is appreciated.

Thanks.

[evenflow]

Originally Posted by fitzski

First, sorry for questions that may be intuitive to most, but I'm really just starting out here.

To the problem at hand...

I've never polished a car before, and having picked up a 2003 Passat W8 over the winter, this car needs some help. There are a lot of swirl marks and superficial scratches - I doubt the PO ever even waxed it. It's Pacific Blue, a dark colour.

I've got a PC 7424, along with some Lake Country pads (orange, white, black) and I picked up some Optimum Compound. I've washed and clayed the car, and now I need to know how to use the polishing products. I tried a spot on the roof, but it sure doesn't seem like I'm getting the results I would expect.

I applied the OC to the LC orange pad (in a "+" on the pad face), dabbed it around the roof a bit, then turned it on at speed setting 3, did a few passes, then turned it up to 5 and did a few more passes. I didn't apply any additional pressure to the PC, just it's own weight. I then buffed the area with a buffing towel, to see the results. The compound was still a bit damp. I could still see scratches and swirl marks on the roof, but what has me worried is the definite "haze" to the area... did I take off too much?!

So, some questions:
- what sort of speed settings should I use on the PC?
- how much compound gets used... better too little, or too much? If it doesn't dry in a few passes, am I using too much?
- what kind of buffing technique is best? I just used a MF buffing towel.
- what is the next step after buffing off the compound... should I move to a softer pad and do it again? Or go to a straight polish? Or...? I'm a bit nervous about the hazing, but given that the same scratches (probably from driving under low hanging branches or something) are still clearly visible, I don't *think* I've taken off too much.

Anyway... that's where I'm at. Your help is appreciated.

Thanks.

Your on the right path. Ill give you a step by step.

What I do is make a circle with the polish, about 1 inch from the edge of the pad. Or you could just make an X accross the pad. Either method will work. Once the pad becomes saturdated in the compound, only use about 3 pea sized dots of compound, or however much you think is necessary for the job. Spread the compound on at about speed 3, then bump it up to speed 6. For any correction of paint, your going to want to use speed 6 most of the time. Heres what you did wrong. You NEED to apply weight to the PC. If you let the PC work under its on weight, it wont do any real correction. You need to generate that heat, in order to remove the defects. Make your passes in a North to South, East to West motion. You might need to make 3-4 passes with the Compound. After your done with the compound, follow up with a polish (Optimum Polish) with a white polishing pad to remove any hazing. As for buffing, I just use a MF towel and wipe off the polish. Simple as that. Im still a newb to this as well, there is a learning curve and it DOES take practice. Dont be discouraged or dissapointed if you dont get it right the first time! Keep at it, and goodluck!

[fitzski]

Thanks for that.

I'm just uber-nervous about going too far and doing serious damage.

I probably am using too much compound. I'll try again this aft and see how the results go. I'll need to pick up some polish (I'll probably try out Optimum) as the next step to remove the hazing, then my Zaino.

[blkyukon]

Most likely the hazing is caused by not letting the polish breakdown completely. You need to work the polish in and break it down for it to remove imperfections - depending on the polish/pad combo can take anywhere from 2-5 mins with the PC.

Here is what I do with a new polish to help see how it breaks down:

Time will vary - temperature, humidity, speed, speed of movement, pressure, pad & paint all play a factor on "how long to work the polish in". You need to know what the polish looks likes when it's brokendown so you don't under or over work the polish. This is why good lighting is important!

Now when using a new polish you've never used before you need to figure out how it works and breaksdown before using it on the whole car.

Here is what I do with any new polish I use for the first time ·

* Using a 1'x1' section - apply the polish the same as any other polish
* using little pressure and speed 4.5 - 5 work the polish in.
* At each change in the polish I remove a section and see how the paint looks
* repeat at each change until very little or no hazing is present (this will very depending on the abrasiveness of the polish).

The reason for speed 4.5-5 and little pressure is, it goes through the stages slower so you can determine when it's brokendown without under or over working the polish. Now you know what it looks like when it's brokendown you can increase the speed, pressure, etc. to get the job done.

My website has more info on polishing, polish break down stages and videos that might help:

http://paintcare-n-detailing.com

So, some questions:
- what sort of speed settings should I use on the PC?

Any paint correction like evenflow said needs speed 5 or 6

- how much compound gets used... better too little, or too much? If it doesn't dry in a few passes, am I using too much?

Each polish is different in what they look like when they break down.

Amount - start off with a dime size to do a 2'x2' area then add more/less to get the desired results.

- what kind of buffing technique is best? I just used a MF buffing towel.

The PC does all the work removing the imperfections in the paint - a MF towel is used to just remove the polish residue.

- what is the next step after buffing off the compound... should I move to a softer pad and do it again? Or go to a straight polish? Or...? I'm a bit nervous about the hazing, but given that the same scratches (probably from driving under low hanging branches or something) are still clearly visible, I don't *think* I've taken off too much.

Depending on the aggressiveness of the polish you will probably need to step down to a finishing polish to remove any hazing before going to your wax/sealant.

[fitzski]

Thanks Yukon; I'll look around your site and check things out.

I tackled the roof again yesterday, with a bit more intensity. Still used the PC and a Lake Country orange pad with the Optimum Compound, and worked it quite a bit more than previously. Still the results aren't there... Some hazing over the work area, but no change in the scratches. <sigh> I think maybe I'll step to a yellow pad and see if that produces more results.

Also, I don't know if this makes sense, but a friend made the comment that in his experience "VW clearcoat is very hard". I'd hope that mean it doesn't scratch easy, but my roof says otherwise! But, I s'pose it would also mean it's equally difficult to get them out.

Just to say as well... I'm not looking for shortcuts, by going to more aggressive pads/compounds, but I've worked the same area 3 times now, with no apparent improvement.

Thanks for the tips and info!

[toml]

I'm sorry to hear you're having a frustrating experience with your first attempt. The Optimum products have polishing oils in them, so if you use too much product, it won't really do an optimum amount of correcting. I think part of their long working time is the fact that they have the oils in them.

I polished out my car last Saturday first trying Optimum Polish with a light cutting pad, then stepped up to Optimum Polish on a medium cutting pad, and then stepped up to Optimum Compound (OCC) on the medium cutting pad (orange Propel) before I was seeing the desired results. So, pad and product combo definitely is a factor. After smearing the pad (with polish) on the paint, I did an initial pass at 4 to spread the product and then kicked the PC up to 5-6 for 2-3 slow pases. I found the OCC so easy to work with, even in direct sun - no dusting, and I could look at the paint through the worked-in polish to see if I needed to go over the area some more. I did follow OCC with Optimum Polish on a light cutting pad (Propel green).

You definitely want to apply some pressure to the top of the PC ... just enough to bog the motor then let up slightly. I also took the side handle off of mine after reading some posts here, and that's been convenient.

I know Accumulator keeps talking about how hard the Audi clear is, and VW is built by the same parent company I believe, so you might have your work cut out for you. Maybe someone here who's worked on VWs will chime in and give you some further guidance. You could also do a search under VW* (the * is a wildcard and needed because vw is too short a search term) or Volkswagon to read about others' experiences.

[fitzski]

Yukon - your site is AWESOME!! *VERY* useful presentation of info for somebody at my level!! Thanks!!!

I think I definitely need to step to a yellow (slightly more aggressive) pad. I'm wondering what I should use after the Optimum Compound... I've got some Zaino Z-PC - maybe I'll use that, with a white pad, to finish the area before waxing?

[Accumulator]

To do serious correction with a PC I'd recommend using 4" pads. The lighter weight allows you to apply more pressure without the machine bogging down and merely "jiggling". With 4" pads you actually have to be a little careful, which is a whole 'nother world compared to the ultra-gentle (and sometimes ineffective) nature of a PC with 6.5" pads.

Oh, and I hear both sides of the story regarding VW clear; it's as hard as an Audis and it's soft as can be Never tried the Optimum so I dunno how VW clear responds to it.