Why does klasse haze German paint?

BillNorth · 10-30-01, 05:59

So far I have multiple layers of aio and one SG on both my Dad's Olds, and my Mom's Bimmer. The alero looks good in all light. The Bimmer looks good too. But in some light, you can see a fine brushed haze in the paint. Similar to what 3M SMR does to our paint. But, this isn't a permanent brushed haze. When I say "isn't permanent", I mean, the brushed haze will go in the direction of the last towel you brushed over the surface. So if you buffed in a front to back motion, then the haze will go front to back. If you buff in side to side motion, then the haze will go side to side. It's like a film on the car. It dosen't wash off, and it dosen't buff off. It's most visible in strong direct sunlight or regular 100 watt light bulbs. I love klasse, don't get me wrong.

I know DavidB, and Brad, and Beau, and Don etc have used Klasse with astounding success, but I'm telling you, I'm not crazy. I apply my AIO, like everyone else. Foam applicator, back and forth motion, wipe on, buff off with charisma. My SG is done with foam, 1oz per coat, back and forth motions, dry for an hour, buff with charisma and a spray bottle of tap water if necessary.

The bimmer is boston green metallic(MY1997), and the Olds is silver mist metallic(MY2000). The bimmer was ABC'd, Clayed with 3M, and AIO'd and SG'd. The Olds was ABC'd, AIO'd, and SG'd.

All you klasse users who have german cars, go and look at your paint very closely, from various angles etc. If your as anal as me, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Maybe Larry Reynolds from carcaronline was right. He described perfectly what I'm experiencing.

http://www.carcareonline.com/protect_paint.html

Just tell me I'm not the only one.

YoSteve · 10-30-01, 06:12

very puzzling, I have not seen the phenomenon you speak of on my car.

so the second you swipe the car with your towel you see streaks in the shape of the swipe? or you see haze in the shape of the swipe? what happens if you use your finger and pass it over the "haze" does it move it?

Try this, go to your car in the light that you can see this in, breathe on it heavily and wipe the breath off immediately. I've never wiped SG with cotton so it might be different too.

BW · 10-30-01, 06:13

I have this "haze" when I apply too thick of a coat, and it usually takes some QD to get it off.

Other than that, I don't experience any hazing. And trust me, I am very anal about the cleanliness of my cars. Could it be your specific jug?

RIC · 10-30-01, 06:19

What you are describing sounds more like micro-marring (scratches) from the towels you are using--especially since you say they are in the direction of wiping.

Do you have to apply any pressure with the charisma towels when wiping off the Klasse?

Maybe MF towels are better for removing Klasse?

Brad4rdHay · 10-30-01, 06:22

klasse is gumming up and the marks you see are your towel moving around the nut fully cured product. Probably on the other cars too (if use same technique) but is probably more visible on the grey paint.

bigboyhf · 10-30-01, 07:25

I have had this "haze", but I attributed it to the QD since there was no "haze" until I QD'd. It only shows in very strong sunlight and only in certain angles. My fix for this problem was to use a PC with an MF bonnet and one small spritz of Crystal Mist (I suppose you could use any QD) and did a quick run at 4 on the PC to just smooth and buff the surface. I haven't seen this "haze" since. I also thought maybe it was from the very high humidity, because if I swiped my finger over the paint, you could see that it was just a surface film. But since the PC buff, I have not had the problem... And I had it on both the BMW and the Mustang, so I doubt it is a "German" thing.

H

carguy · 10-30-01, 07:30

I don't have any direct experience with the AIO (yet) BUT:

This used to drive me crazy with waxes. I learned it was feeder oils, and I was merely moving them around with the towel. This is why they change direction.

The solution for me was switching to microfiber towels. Problem all gone. ALL gone. Are you using MF?

bigboyhf · 10-30-01, 07:40

I always use an MF and still had it happen. I really tried to figure out where it was coming from. I would use a dry MF and wipe the haze off and check with my finger to make sure there was no film. I didn't put QD on, since I also thought that could have been the culprit. The next day, the film was back! Thats what made me think it was humidity. The humidity here in Florida has improved a lot in the last week or so, and I suppose that could also be why I haven't seen it recently... Or, buffing with the PC might hide the lines that you get from just wiping with an MF and I no longer see the "pseudo-swirls" even thought there may be a slight humidity film.

H

Andre' · 10-30-01, 11:35

It's very fine micro hazing , can't do much about it. Klasse does need some time to cure and harden.

BillNorth · 10-31-01, 06:42

YoSteve, the haze is the shape of the swipe. If I run my finger over the surface, it will look like a 3D swirl. I could probably spell my name in the haze, and in the right light, we could all probably read it.

RIC,
I don't think it's micromarring in my paint. I have micromarring in my paint, and I'm able to distinguish between it and the klasse haze.

Maybe "haze" is the wrong word. "Film" is probably better. The film just moves in the direction of the last towel/finger swipe. The towel makes an imprint in the film, thus giving it the "hazy" look.

bigboyhf,
I'm thinking the weather has an effect on how the klasse looks. It's been very cool here lately. I think this had made the haze worse.

Andre,
I applied the klasse on this car 3 weeks ago, and none since. It should have cured by now.

Here is a quote from car care online:

The polymer-based waxes tend to last longer, yet do not seem to give the same depth of shine, as do the Carnauba waxes. As a general rule, depth of shine and longevity are opposite ends of the same scale. Polymer waxes are also usually less sensitive to excess car wash. They do seem to be somewhat more hydroscopic (absorb water and become cloudy) than the organic waxes. If you are using a polymer based wax on a German paint and have hazing or clouding of the wax, about the only thing that will work is to strip the polymer wax and rewax with a Carnauba based wax. German paints hate polymer-based waxes. I have spoken to paint chemists, the Glazurit people, Porsche, BMW and M/B people and to date have not gotten a viable reason for this. I have gotten a lot of mumbling and shuffling of feet, but no hard and fast answers. The American and Japanese paints can tolerate polymer waxes. The German paints just don't seem to react well with most of these products. There are also highly advertised Teflon based products on the market. It is my understanding that it requires a 600 plus degree environment to bond Teflon to your paint. So, unless you are applying it with a flamethrower, you may not be getting all you paid for. (In the same vein, just be glad you are not getting all the government you are paying for). The polymer-based products will also tend to build up with several applications and this buildup may turn off color over time. The solution to this problem is to strip everything off and start again.

I still love klasse, but this permanent film is killing me.

Belicoso · 10-31-01, 09:02

I see the Klasse hazing you are talking about on my BMW, little lines that seem to stay after applying it under humid or cold conditions even with 12 hours of dry time before buffing.

I removed the excess with a green Viper MF spritzed with Final Inspection and a little bit of preassure, then I waited another 20 minutes and gave it another pass with a dry Blue Miracle MF using the part that is not fuzzy (I call it the back)... with very light preassure, a little harder on the more "hazed" up parts... the finish is clean in direct sunlight and with fluorecents.

The colors of the MF's do not matter, they are to clarify which MF's I used

DETAILKING · 10-31-01, 09:42

carnubas, and a lot of the info on that site is outdated and "old school" facts.

I have seen the hazing that you have talked about on your bimmer. I am not gonna mention the product I saw it with (it was not KLASSE), but it is exactly what you said, and it couldn't be removed. It was like a film on the paint that could only be seen in the sun. Sometimes it looks like swirls, but when you go to wipe it, the swirls change shape, and tend to take the shape and "mirror" the wiping. Wash after wash, this film seems to remain.

The product needs to be stripped from the car, the car clayed and reprepped, and you need to start over. You can try a different product, but before you do that, my recommendation to you is to apply AIO or sg again on the car right over the coats that are on it.