Carnauba vs Polymer:"German paints hate Polymer"

[Ripsnort]

Thought I'd bring this up for discussion (Not arguement). I have a BMW so I thought this to be interesting. Its from Car care online, note bold sections:
Of course all material is subjective to sales by both Carnauba and Polymer wax businesses.


Carnauba wax is the protective coating of the leaves of the tropical Carnauba plant. Pure Carnauba wax is the consistency of a brick. To be useful as a car wax, solvents, lubricants and numerous other additives must be blended with the wax. If you see a wax advertised to be 100% Carnauba wax, they are really saying that whatever wax there may be in the can is 100% Carnauba (one advertised "100%" brand that comes to mind is actually 5.3% Carnauba wax and 94.7% who knows what). There are also numerous grades of Carnauba, and the top grades are expensive, so a high content percentage may not tell the whole story. The top grades are #1 white and # 1 yellow (no, it does not come in blue). Some of the better waxes on the market are about 25% to 35% #1 Carnauba. Carnauba will produce, in my humble opinion, the best depth of shine of any type of wax on the market. You may also apply several coats of a quality Carnauba wax over a period of time without getting "wax buildup". The downside is that Carnauba is somewhat sensitive to excess car wash. A very strong solution of car wash or the use of dish detergent will tend to strip the wax. The use of the minimal amount of car wash in your wash solution will help your wax last a lot longer.

There are two forms of wax, paste and liquid. They differ basically in the amount of solvents. Rock hard Carnauba is diluted with solvents to either the paste form or further diluted to the liquid form. When you apply a paste wax, the friction of application helps melt the wax and evaporate the solvents. A liquid wax usually contains more volatile solvents that evaporate out when the wax is applied. The excess wax, left over lubricants, excess bonding agents, solvent residues and whatever else is left forms the "haze" that is buffed out to reveal the wax.

The polymer-based waxes tend to last longer, yet do not seem to give the same depth of shine, as do the Carnauba waxes. As a general rule, depth of shine and longevity are opposite ends of the same scale. Polymer waxes are also usually less sensitive to excess car wash. They do seem to be somewhat more hydroscopic (absorb water and become cloudy) than the organic waxes.If you are using a polymer based wax on a German paint and have hazing or clouding of the wax, about the only thing that will work is to strip the polymer wax and rewax with a Carnauba based wax. German paints hate polymer-based waxes. I have spoken to paint chemists, the Glazurit people, Porsche, BMW and M/B people and to date have not gotten a viable reason for this. I have gotten a lot of mumbling and shuffling of feet, but no hard and fast answers. The American and Japanese paints can tolerate polymer waxes. The German paints just don't seem to react well with most of these products. There are also highly advertised Teflon based products on the market. It is my understanding that it requires a 600 plus degree environment to bond Teflon to your paint. So, unless you are applying it with a flamethrower, you may not be getting all you paid for. (In the same vein, just be glad you are not getting all the government you are paying for). The polymer-based products will also tend to build up with several applications and this buildup may turn off color over time. The solution to this problem is to strip everything off and start again.

[waxman]

This is probably correct. I own a 2001 Chrysler product, which is now a German run and owned company, and I had problems with Meguiar's #26 hazing and clouding on my vehicle, because this does contain some polymer protectants to help it last long. But with Klasse, which is all polymer(acrylic), it does not haze at all, for some reason.

[Brad B.]

I have used various polymer and acrylic products on my German cars for many years with no ill effects at all.

[Dave C.]

Just Klassed my dad's '01 325xi!! No clouding here!!
Waxman, I understand that DCX is German-owned, but how does a DCX product now be considered a German one?? Ford owns Jag, Land Rover, Volvo, etc. but, personally I don't consider these American cars. Just my opinion, and my curiosty.

[waxman]

Because I believe they changed the paint to German paint. I did not have clouding issues on my 98 Chrysler vehicle. That is all I am saying.

[Ron Ketcham]

I am a supplier to DCX, I work with all their paint operations in all North American assembly plants.

The base/clear system used is still PPG.

The only change is that rather than using a 1K clear, they just changed a few months ago to the 1K+ clear. The only difference is that it is more etch resistant than the 1K.

[Cybercowboy]

I doubt this is really a hard and fast rule. But, just to make sure, I bought a Corvette instead of a bimmer.

As far as depth of shine, that is a matter of opinion. I like the look of Klasse (from pictures) and Zaino (from personal experience) very much. Many of the Klasse folks use a carnuba topper. I loved the look I got from Meguiars paste carnuba wax I used years ago. So, to each their own. Peace.

[Dave C.]

I see your point, but didn't Ron touch on this before saying that the same people that supply to Ford, GM, DCX supply to BMW, MB. I believe that he said that that there were only a few different suppliers to mfgs, such as PPG, Dupont, and BASF. I really don't much about this but I could swear that this has been discussed before. Don't have time to do a search right now.

[mp996]

No issues with Zaino doing anything but coming off smoothly on my German paint. Porsche is about as German you can get.

[Brad4rdHay]

Waxes have a uinique look to them...not super reflective, but deep and wet. The polymers lack a certain depth to them but make up in great reflectiveness, and frankly, on a daily driver, polymers stand up MUCH better to heat and bird poop and such. Also, just top klasse or zaino with a quality non-cleaner wax for the great depth and warmth of a wax and the reflectivity of the polymer. Die Hard Zaino fanatics may hat you for it but its better to try something out and see how you like it yourself. As for yellowing, some cheaper polymers especially in the past did tend to haze or yellow when layered on german paints, but klasse DEFINATELY doesnt. Waxes also yellow to a verry small degree that might be noticably after many, many coats.

[JasonC8301]

Klasse/Blitz on a 2000 Ti Silver BMW.

www.angelfire.com/home/detailing

(The shinier ones are with Klasse, the first one is just Blitz.)

[YoSteve]

don't know about my german paint but my german clearcoat is doing excellent

(hey jason you're missing a link, update you page )