Blackfire and Souveran Compatability

stoneweed1 · 11-30-02, 05:37

i have both the Blackfire Complete Kit and recently purchased the Souvern Shine Kit

The Blackfire Complete Kit includes:
BLACKFIRE Gloss Shampoo & Conditioner
BLACKFIRE Gloss Enhancing Polish
BLACKFIRE All Finish Paint Protection
BLACKFIRE Deep Gloss Spray

Souveran Shine Kit includes:
Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo
Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion
Souveran Wax
Crystal Mist

I've Blackfired my vehicle and applied Souveran last week.

Hypothetical Questions:
1) I only want to apply Blackfire Products in 3 weeks due to time constraints. Would I only use the Blackfire Steps i.e. wash with Blackfire Gloss Shampoo and Conditioner followed by the Gloss Enhancing Polish and then the All Finish Paint Protection? Could I skip the Gloss Enhancing Polish Step after washing with Blackfire Shampoo and Conditioner and go straight to the All Finish Paint Protection Step or does the prior application of Souveran commit me to taking the Souveran off with the Polish? and then the following week if I would wash again could I just wash and dry and then use the Deep Gloss Spray? What results would you get by spraying crystal mist over a Blackfired vehicle after I just Blackfired it but had Souveran 3 weeks ago?
Would any of these steps change if I wanted to apply Blackfire Products in 3 months instead of 3 weeks?

2) I want to apply more Souveran in 3 weeks. Do I have to apply Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and then the Souveran Wax? or can i just wash with Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo and go straight to the Souveran Wax? Any harm done to the Souveran if I wash with the Blackfire Gloss Shampoo and Conditioner instead of the Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo? Would any of these steps change if I wanted to apply the Souveran in 3 months instead of 3 weeks? What would be the results by spraying the Blackfire deep gloss spray over a layer of Souveran?

3) Is Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion similar to the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish? On a vehicle that has been Blackfired and Souveraned, does the Paintwork Cleansing Lotion take off the Souveran Wax and the underlayer of Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection?
On a vehicle that has been Blackfired and Souveraned, does the Gloss Enhancing Polish take off the Souveran Wax and the underlayer of Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection? Does the Paintwork Cleansing Lotion take of the Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection? Can i top the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish with Souveran Wax?

4) Which is "better" as far as protection for a very clean garage queen vehicle after washing and drying - applying more layers of only the wax without first applying either the respective Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish or the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion or is protection enhanced by polishing first with either the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish or the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and then applying one layer of the appropriate wax (Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection/Souveran Wax)?

5) I have another vehicle which I've only Blackfired vehicle 2 weeks ago and its quite dirty and haven't used Souveran on it ever, but would like to. Can I just wash and dry with either the Blackfire Shampoo and Conditioner or the Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo and then apply the Souveran, or do I need to Blackfire Gloss Enhance Polish then Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection and then Souveran?

I know these are alot of detailed questions, but i want to make sure that I don't create more work and hopefully more confusion for myself because of incompatability of the products. thanks

blkZ28Conv · 11-30-02, 06:32

You are dealing with two different types of finish protectants. Separate their usage. If your top coat is BF cleanse paint, if necessary, with BF's cleanser and wash with BF's Shampoo. This is not a hard and fast rule but since you have both lines of products there is no need to intermix.
Only polish and/or cleanse paint when needed. If not necessary just wash, analysis paint condition and proceed as needed.. Polish if paint has become marred or oxidized or just add another coat of protectant.
Read all instructions and do a search for other's experiences with these products. BF states that if one tops with a carnuaba that one needs to wash, wear off or polish prior to applying another coat of BF protectant for best bonding of protectant to finish on underlying BF.
BF states that their QD is not formulated to be used on a carnuaba'd vehicle. Period.
Decide which route or final finish appearance you like. If it's the Souveran, just top after washing every 3-4 weeks. This will enforce the protection of your base sealant protectant which should not be effected by environmental assault because of the Souveran topper. Maintain the Souveran topper by Qd'ing with appropriate QD (Crystal Mist) between washes.
If time is a problem just re-apply BF after each wash and not top with Souveran. If appearance and protectant appear adequate just QD with the BF Gloss Enhancer.
Most of us here on this forum own many different product lines. With this stated, normally I just focus on the product line that my appearance demands call for. Mixing and matching is fun but to use something because it is on the shielf can sometimes be counter-productive.
In your case just build a good BF foundation.This should only require one session of BF polish usage. Any difficult surface marring should have been remedied by surface prepping with SMR, clay, etc. Apply 5-8 coats of BF protectant over several weeks. After doing this start the Souveran and stick with this topper until you feel the paint needs more advanced care and start over again.
If your car is truely a garage queen protection should not be a concern. Appearance is the main factor on what products you choose to use and maintain.
Hope this helps a little but there are too many variables in your questions to give clearcut answers.

stoneweed1 · 11-30-02, 01:43

Very informative reply and thanks

From what i understand - the suggestion is for frequent BF All Finish Paint Protection layers (7-8) after washing with a few Deep Gloss Spray Coats and then start with Souveran and continue with Souveran and the Crystal Mist.

To start over - use 3M Swirl Mark Remover and then the polish? Can one "start over" by just starting with the polish and not the 3M SMR?

SergC · 11-30-02, 02:57

Quote:

Originally posted by stoneweed1
Very informative reply and thanks

From what i understand - the suggestion is for frequent BF All Finish Paint Protection layers (7-8) after washing with a few Deep Gloss Spray Coats and then start with Souveran and continue with Souveran and the Crystal Mist.

To start over - use 3M Swirl Mark Remover and then the polish? Can one "start over" by just starting with the polish and not the 3M SMR?

Yes, You can.
SMR or any other abrasive polish to use ONLY if paint has swirls

jrh382 · 11-30-02, 06:29

I just used blackfire on my Volkswagen GTI and very impressed with the results. Very reflective and the car feels very slick n slippery. As far as ease....went right on and came right off.

As far as durability, Blackfire will last longer. Souveran is a Carnauba wax, where it may give you a slightly better shine, the durablity is far less then that of a polymer (BF)

Depending where you live, lets say California where the sun is always shining, go the Carnauba route if you don't mind waxing more often because of the warm weather year round. If you live in crappy New Jersey like I do, where the temperature sits in the mid 30s and is too cold to wax in winter (most of the time), and where it snows an inch and they drop 10 feet of roadsalt down, then I would go the Polymer route because you won't be able to clean it as often.

blkZ28Conv · 12-02-02, 09:02

Quote:

Originally posted by jrh382
If you live in crappy New Jersey like I do, where the temperature sits in the mid 30s and is too cold to wax in winter (most of the time), and where it snows an inch and they drop 10 feet of roadsalt down, then I would go the Polymer route because you won't be able to clean it as often.

LOL

mrdetailer · 12-02-02, 10:00

Quote:

Originally posted by stoneweed1
3) Is Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion similar to the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish? On a vehicle that has been Blackfired and Souveraned, does the Paintwork Cleansing Lotion take off the Souveran Wax and the underlayer of Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection?
On a vehicle that has been Blackfired and Souveraned, does the Gloss Enhancing Polish take off the Souveran Wax and the underlayer of Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection? Does the Paintwork Cleansing Lotion take of the Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection? Can i top the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish with Souveran Wax?

4) Which is "better" as far as protection for a very clean garage queen vehicle after washing and drying - applying more layers of only the wax without first applying either the respective Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish or the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion or is protection enhanced by polishing first with either the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish or the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and then applying one layer of the appropriate wax (Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection/Souveran Wax)?

5) I have another vehicle which I've only Blackfired vehicle 2 weeks ago and its quite dirty and haven't used Souveran on it ever, but would like to. Can I just wash and dry with either the Blackfire Shampoo and Conditioner or the Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo and then apply the Souveran, or do I need to Blackfire Gloss Enhance Polish then Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection and then Souveran?

With the products you have the following procedure will produce an amazing look.

1. Wash and clay to prep surface.

2. Put on Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion

3. Immediately put on Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish, the combination of the 2 will produce a deeper, clearer shine than either by themselves.

4. Put on the desired layers of BF Paint Protectant. I recommend a minimum of 3 applied at least a day apart. Remember that once a carnauba is put on you can no longer use BF unless you strip off the Carnauba. Up to this point you can use all Blackfire products.

5. Let a week go by and then put on the Sovereign. After that use the Pinnacle products to wash and quick detail.

I tried the same thing recently with P21S products with spectacular results. It's really great process for us OCD types.

I do have a reasonable source from CMA to justify this procedure.

http://properautocare.com/refshinkit.html

You should like it. It's gorgeous.